to think that a pessimistic attitude can affect fertility and IVF outcomes [title edited by mnhq]

[crashbandicoot]

ok this is a provocative title but so many books advocate a mind/body approach, particularly with unexplained IF that I am wondering if my negative thinking "nothing is going to work" is the reason behind my IF? this really concerns me because I thought naively that sex=conception but now it seems my personality/outlook is all wrong!!

based on this I am thinking that I need to have a completely different personality (ie become an optimist rather than a pessimist) if I am ever have a dc - which seems too difficult for me to do.

so in order to understand this better can any pessimists/optimists share their experience and if they felt it hindered or helped them in relation to fertility/IF as the whole issue is so loaded with myths etc...

Agree with bowlersarm, good luck with everything (and don't be doing any seppuku-ing - I just googled it and it's not pleasant!).

I understand what you were trying to say op... Best of luck x

She is struggling with her own fertility and calling her a cunt for wanting to discuss that is just downright mean tbh

Never in the history of AIBU has a genuine question and implied request for moral support got in the way of a good flaming. Its a shame but separating self from this matter seems impossible.

Probably, the realistic answer is that no-one can give definitive answers, even the scientists cannot, so your summing-up is pretty spot-on. crash but we can give you a hand to hold x esp those of us who have had fertility problems and know how upsetting it is.

I don't like the new title at all.

My failed ivf cycles were due to my embryos dying inside me/miscarriage. Positive mental attitude would not have solved that. An embriologist and fertility consultant told me that my ivf failed for practical reasons, ie not all embryos will go on to be babies.

Your new title implies that people who may already be very hurt emotionally by failed ivf may have caused their failure by not being positive enough .

Fwiw the only impact positivity can have on fertility in my knowledge is where a man or woman may be very stressed and not want sex as a result. Positivity doesn't affect ivf.

I think all the 'positive attitude' rubbish is just that- crap. I was a bit of a pessimist and I really don't think mental attitude has much to do with it at all.
I believe healthy eating, a sensible weight, regular exercise, a good clinic and science are the key to IVF success. That, and unfortunately the funds to pay for several attempts if needed.
DOI- successful ICSI on our second attempt with the help of aspirin, prednisolone and intralipids.
The main difference between the first and second attempts for us were that the first was IVF (not ICSI) and the second one involved using the steroids intralipids and aspirin.

AIBU to think that a pessimistic attitude can affect cancer outcomes

AIBU to think that a pessimistic attitude can affect kidney failure outcomes

AIBU to think that a pessimistic attitude can affect hepatitis outcomes

HQ - can you see how useless the new title is?

Good grief, predictable descent into bunfight - MN at its less-than-best

crash, I understand what you are saying and yes, I like your last post/summary too.

I don't think that mental attitude has anything at all to do with fertility/pregnancy outcome, but that whatever mental attitude somebody has can influence how they cope with whatever they have to deal with.
The most relaxed, happy-go-lucky person can have trouble conceiving or recurring MCs (me!) and the most cuntish/neurotic/stressed person can conceive quickly and easily, have a lovely pregnancy and a healthy bouncing baby.
To suggest otherwise is just another stick to beat woman with IMO (funny how fathers' stress levels are never mentioned….).

Good luck [thank].
Take from this thread what you find helpful and ignore the rest.

fuckuppery You have been beyond disgusting to the OP, far more offensive than she has been.

While I disagree with the OP, I don't see the need to berate her as she, too, is clearly struggling with her fertility issues.

Like it or not, there is a link between managing your mental health and physical health. No, being positive will not change the outcome of a progressive disease but in terms of managing pain and fatigue, you can learn to manage the symptoms in a better way. And I say this as someone with a condition that is wreaking havoc on my body.

the old title was insulting and i was insulted.

she asked for my opinion if negativity affected fertility.
as a lady who has a 10 dd via ivf, i gave her my opinion, which i wont repeat because i keep getting deleted.

I suppose that now i have no ovaries and no chance of ever being preganant, well, thats just becuase i wasnt 'happy' enough.

Are you wilfully trying to misunderstand/misrepresent the OP fuckuppery?

crash, my heart goes out to you - I do understand what you were trying to say, and we had this said to us time and time again when ttc our first child. I was also vulnerable to an awful lot of bullshit from "alternative practitioners" peddling their snake oil.

Sadly, as my IVF consultant said to me on our 3rd cycle, most of it is down to luck - and medical science of course.

I wish you every success with your IVF - it's a gruelling process so look after yourself x

Anecdotal evidence is just that, stories that people tell (if said in the right way they might give some basic reassurance to stop a person from crawling up the walls. But with the caveat "its only what I've heard"). People do cling on to threads of hope, or should we just say nothing and let them feel isolated and suffer? No, we should not!! IMHO

Scientific experiments and research give much more reliable results but can never control for individual differences. Nor do the scientists and other researchers know everything, that's why research work continues. Even scientists don't know all the answers about fertility, ideal caste iron best conditions, nor information that will satisfy everyone's questions. specialists give information to the best of their knowledge, but cannot give absolutes, how can they? Knowledge gaps are everywhere.

eg Homeopathy is trashed and vilified by some, and believed in by others. People say it isn't scientifically proven and yet it has helped people. It doesnt need to stop people wanting to find out, if it could be an option to help them.

If we can tease apart the differences, and know the limitations of human knowledge, then there is nothing wrong with asking questions. Keep 'em coming!

no im not!

im not the only one who agrees that this is an awful threat , but i sure am the only one who is SO OUTRAGED with this assumption i named the behaviour (agressively i admit)

will positivity cure cancer NO
will positivity cure infertility NO.

no matter how she now likes to sugar coat it.

IF she is stuggling with her own infertility she should realise that she isnt the only one, and her idling musings on a SUnday afternoon to pass a few hours might UPSET people.

and since the audience she targetted was negative people im therefore unsurprised she got a negative response.

So now im off to do something positive in the hopes i concieve tonigh.... oh wait... ive got no ovaries.... perhaps positive thinking will bring them back.

fuckuppery the OP was asking for opinions. Why couldn't you give yours within the violent attack?

THE OP DIDN'T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS!!!!!

Argh!!!!!

I did, but I was deleted. because i included a 'naughty word'

I cant tell you what i said because i will get deleted again.... nevertheless my opion stands as:
_

fuckupperymakeruppery Sun 17-Aug-14 13:32:12

yeah... thanks for getting me deleted when i suggested that the OPs attitude might have more to do with her not having kids than her positive frame of mind.

We women who struggle with infertility are constantly given medical reasons why we cannot concieve, and simply saying you cant have kids becuase you are not happy enough is offensive, insensitive and just plain nasty.

No one is telling you to spend thousands of pounds being happy in order for your ivf to be sucessful and anyone who does is a shark, that should be avoided.

IMHO the title alone is offencive enough to get this whole thread removed.

I don't think so.

I was an absolute mess during ivf. My anxiety was at an all time high, I'd just started a new job, we were in the middle of house buying and selling, I was really struggling. My anxiety meant I felt constantly nauseous which is very draining, I couldn't relax etc.

I cried so often, I'd be a shaking mess before injecting as I felt I was putting myself through the whole rigmarole for nothing, yet it was a success and I have a beautiful 2 year old boy as a result.

I understand where the OP is coming from so this isn't getting at her.

But everyone with anecdotes about friends or whoever only getting pregnant after relaxing, do you not just think that was the month they happened to have a decent egg or sperm or what have you? Being told you just need to relax/be optimistic is seriously offensive.

Do people really think that I spent all of four years (split into 2.5 yrs and 1.5 yrs!) being negative and stressy? Of course not, some months I was down, some months I was on holiday or happy or whatever. No doubt had I conceived during those happier times I might have said that had caused the result.

I believe that if you have low fertility/unexplained fertility that sometimes there will be specific medical issues that mean you can't conceive at all, and sometimes that the odds are just incredibly low. Going on about 'just relax' 'forget' etc is unhelpful.

I am very aware of when I'm ovulating. How exactly am I supposed to forget that?

(btw pregnant with second child so not saying this simply because I haven't conceived, but when I did conceive it was due to medical help, not my mood)

OP, I think people telling you to "relax" in order for something to happen is one of the least helpful things they can do. Some people will always share stories about how a couple they knew were trying for a baby, but when they stopped trying and just "relaxed", they conceived. How can this help? If you think, "Right, I'll stop trying, because if I stop trying and relax, then perhaps I'll conceive", then you're still actually trying, aren't you? You're somehow trying to fool yourself into thinking you're not trying. I can't think of anything more stressful, frankly.

It's like the people who say (and this happened to me as a child): "If you show the dog you're frightened, it's more likely to attack you." Yes, that's a really good way to stop someone being frightened, isn't it? (In my case, the dog was actually attacking me at the time...)

Most of the courses of infertility are physical. They're nothing to do with mental attitude.

I spent months and months, years infact thinking positively and I didn't get pregnant, I have become pregnant twice in my life, the first time I had been told I had no chance of ovulation that cycle, it was also the month before I was due to start IVF and I was stressed about that. The second time I got pregnant I was convinced I'd never get pregnant as I was breastfeeding ds and it took so long to get pregnant with him I was convinced we'd never get lucky again.

The thing that was different on the months I got pregnant was that me and dp were only having sex for fun, we were listening to our bodies and having sex because we felt like it rather than because my thermometer/opk/cycle app told me to have sex. I do believe a positive attitude to sex and trusting your inbuilt instincts can help fertility if you have low fertility rather than zero sperm or no eggs.

ikea you've contradicted yourself. You spent years thinking positively and that didn't work - ie you don't believe that bollocks. But as you conceived when you were 'having sex for fun' you do believe it?

Honestly it's a load of rubbish. You were lucky those months or fertile. Whatever term you prefer.

I think having a positive attitude to sex helped us as I think having sex when we felt like it probably was bettertimed sex and possibly more sex than when we were ttc focused.

The months I got pregnant I was very negative about ttc, a positive attitude to sex is very different to a positive attitude to ttc.

I agree HopefulHamster.

It's either bollocks or it isn't. (And of course it's utter utter bollocks)