to think that a pessimistic attitude can affect fertility and IVF outcomes [title edited by mnhq]

[crashbandicoot]

ok this is a provocative title but so many books advocate a mind/body approach, particularly with unexplained IF that I am wondering if my negative thinking "nothing is going to work" is the reason behind my IF? this really concerns me because I thought naively that sex=conception but now it seems my personality/outlook is all wrong!!

based on this I am thinking that I need to have a completely different personality (ie become an optimist rather than a pessimist) if I am ever have a dc - which seems too difficult for me to do.

so in order to understand this better can any pessimists/optimists share their experience and if they felt it hindered or helped them in relation to fertility/IF as the whole issue is so loaded with myths etc...

And yes, magical thinking can often make things worse.

If things don't work out for you, you'll blame yourself for not "having a positive enough personality".

And if things do work out for you, and you tell people it was your positive personality, you'll make them feel blamed for not being positive enough.

And all for a load of bollocks.

I mean, it's hard enough that people blame themselves for things that genuinely could have had a slight influence, in any situation of grief or loss. We don't need to go around inventing more bollocks to heap on people's heads.

fuck thank you for insuating that my cuntishness is this cause if my IF.

Crashbandicoot, I read the title and thought "wtf" then read your op - I see what you were getting at.

Fwiw, I do think there's something in the 'forget about it and your body relaxes' thinking for the completely unexplained fertility problems - but that doesn't mean that people have themselves to blame for unexplained infertility.

Please don't buy into all the bollocks that is peddled, it will only make you more uptight which is surely counterproductive to what it preaches in the first place.

You can't make yourself not stress about something, all you can do is investigate possible causes as much as you can and then deal with the outcomes as best you can (ivf etc).

Infertility is not 'your fault'.

As discussed on the thread discussing infertility in Chat, this sentiment is right up there with the idiotic idea that people have children if they deserve them (as has actually been said to some infertile women).

Undiagnosed fertility/unexplained fertility problems must be awful (I at least had a diagnosis of PCOS to work with) and peddling the idea that "it's all in the mind" is extremely offensive. There will always be a reason, perhaps medical science hasn't discovered it yet, but there will be a physical reason.

Oh and anyone who thinks it is smart to tell women to "just relax" should pay close attention to JudysPriest's diagram.

does anyone think the new title is less cuntish?

I still dont think the title reflects what exactly you were trying to get at and might still rile some posters,

"Do you think the mind can have an influence on fertility? might have been more along the lines of what you were trying to discuss

btw I think the term magical thinking has hit it on the head. I wonder if there are any strategies to avoid medical thinking or is it just your luck?

Sadly I don't think any amount of positive thought is going to a) make my eggs less shit and b) make dh's sperm a normal shape which means they can swim.

Hopelessly infertile. Too infertile for ivf. Nope don't think relaxing will help a fat lot.

Personally I would have preferred 'AIBU to wonder if pessimism...' but that's just me. Good luck OP and as others have said your infertility to date is not your fault - it's not something you have done

The new title is just as stupid.

Try
"Does anyone think that the colour of your pants can affect your fertility?"

It's the same. Chew on a big

There are lots of stories about getting pg after a holiday etc but these couples are lucky enough to be fertile,it's just taken a long time to conceive. There are hundreds of reasons why this may be the case.

Of course,if you are infertile relaxation won't help. Might help with other aspects of your life but as a means to get pg,it's as effective as running windershins around a room,or sniffing lavender.

OP has a consultant recommended relaxation to you or are you relying on stories from friends etc? Really not trying to be arsey,but if you are having problems conceiving please speak to an expert and get the ball rolling with ivf if that is what is needed.Don't waste valuable time on this twaddle.

Gah- should say 'don't waste'

I think the whole concept of 'staying positive will help' is invented to help those around the individual ttc, get better from cancer etc.

Positive happy people are easier to be around if you are a friend, family member or medical professional.

So if we keep peddling the 'stay positive' message it makes everyone else's lives easier.

People are still going to misunderstand your point I'm afraid, and come on saying "no amount of positive thinking will grow me a womb" etc, even though you clearly stated that you weren't referring to actual physical bars to getting pregnant.

Perhaps "when there are no physical issues present, can mind set affect unexplained fertility?"

Rubbish -

obviously so for IF caused by eg zero sperm / blocked tubes etc.

For 'unexplained' IF - still rubbish.

Yes, taking a positive attitude / looking after your health / trying to maintain your energies etc can only help - but it isn't 'the answer'.

Conversely, if you are struggling to 'be positive' about it, then it is not WHY you are IF - it is not your 'fault' if you are feeling negative.

'Just relax' is trite bollocks trotted out by - some of - those who are lucky enough never to have experienced IF -
and a frightening number of HCP's too.

AND - what Chunderella says:
" A lot of fertility is just dumb luck. But nobody can make any money out of that". This is very true.

IF is big business. Lots of money to be made from woo and woo books re 'creative energy' etc around conception.
Which, if it doesn't work, leaves you poorer and feeling you have failed.
Not good.

I wish you much luck with your attempts to have dc and hope it all goes well for you. x

I think people should try not to leap onto someone and take stuff too personally. It is possible to talk about this in a dispassionate way, to learn and share experiences instead of flaming and "seeing red".

I came on here to give an opinion and reading some of the posts, its a shame the dialogue is being closed down, when the OP specifically (and I feel deliberately) applies the experience to themselves personally, nothing whatsoever talks about apportioning blame or vilifying (apart from trying to change herself!)

crash from what you have written it seems you are searching to try and resolve the reason for you not getting pg and that's natural IMO, but I think you shouldnt think in terms of you changing who you are, as a person. Ive heard so many stories of people saying, we stopped trying and now I'm pg, that it cant be coincidence. I dont, however think you can "think yourself pg" but there is something about it that say, having a more relaxed attitude, or at least trying to behave differently (because trying everything else hasnt worked), might put your body under less stress, fewer stress chemicals in your body,(who knows!) and with that, nature takes its course.

It shows that, as humans, we think we may have all the answers, but in the end, nature does what it likes!

Maybe the title should be changed to "...infertility is all in my mind" ...

you claimed that my negativity impacts on my fertility im just returning the favour :)

I don't like the new title at all.

My failed ivf cycles were due to my embryos dying inside me/miscarriage. Positive mental attitude would not have solved that. An embriologist and fertility consultant told me that my ivf failed for practical reasons, ie not all embryos will go on to be babies.

Your new title implies that people who may already be very hurt emotionally by failed ivf may have caused their failure by not being positive enough .

Fwiw the only impact positivity can have on fertility in my knowledge is where a man or woman may be very stressed and not want sex as a result. Positivity doesn't affect ivf.

And does Nature stick two fingers up, with unwanted pgs due to "first time ever" sex or ONS but not in a relationship when the time and conditions are right. Its called sod's law.

"Ive heard so many stories of people saying, we stopped trying and now I'm pg, that it cant be coincidence."

I was at my most positive when I was having fertility treatment, I was convinced it was going to work but it didn't.
I was constantly told about how as soon as I would have an appt for fertility treatment I'd get pregnant like x did, as soon as I stopped the fertility treatment I'd become pregnant like y, once I'd adopted I'd get pregnant just like their neighbours friends sister. Never happened. I'd love to meet all of these "People" it happened to.
I think your opinion is incredibly simplistic.

fuckuppery. please re read the ops opening post. She never claimed that you personally were responsible for your IF. She asked whether the mind can effect fertility, because this is a theory she has heard bandied around and she wanted to discuss it. unfortunately the thread title was very badly worded.
She is struggling with her own fertility and calling her a cunt for wanting to discuss that is just downright mean tbh

Fuckuppery, at no point did the OP say that your negativity impacts on your fertility.

She asked if her pessimistic personality had caused her unexplained infertility.

Stop being so fucking churlish and nasty towards someone who has done fuck all to you.

ok this is becoming an unhelpful thread and not what I intended and I probably should go and commit ritual seppuku

but what i understand based on the more understanding posters is that

-women experiencing IF are vulnerable to magic thinking and this is destructive.
-no one has said that being optimistic has helped particularly
-neurotic pessimists can still get pregnant, despite what many holistic practitioners say

• stress poss is a factor but there is f-all you can do about it really.

I'm sorry OP, that your thread went that way. I can see it's not what you intended. Good luck with it all, and great that you've managed to gain some thoughts from the more coherent posts.