to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

"At which stage do you do deem your child worthy of a seat when you yourself wouldnt get up to offer a seat?"

What? Why would I not get up to offer a seat as well? Of course I would and I suspect that most who expect their children to get up would as well!

It worked/works like this:

When DC were small they sat on my lap.

As they got older one stood the other sat on my lap or we all stood, depending on the need of others.

My DC learned to offer their seats from an early age. They still offer their seats now, without even thinking twice.

So do I.

The only time I haven't is on one day when I was coming back from having radiotherapy after cancer surgery. The bus had been delayed and I'd stood waiting for an hour and a half, together with half the town. I was in pain from the surgery and exhausted from a relentless schedule of RT while raising small DC singlehandedly. That day I did sit and not offer the seat despite outwardly looking like a fit and healthy young woman.

Incidentally my DCs are 13 and 17 now and are capable of deciding for themselves if they will give up a seat for a more needy person and they have done on several occasions. The crucial thing is, it's THEIR decision.

My children have brilliant manners. If it's a short journey then standing wouldn't be a problem.

If it was a longer journey my dcs will have a seat. If the seat is prebooked on a train they will not be moving for anyone.

I remember someone trying to shift my dcs on a flight once even though we had paid to have our seats together.

If a child is young enough to sit on a parent's lap they should be on that lap, not taking up an extra seat on public transport. Adults have paid full fare and have less energy, especially on the way home from work. If a child is old enough to stand, they should stand when seats are scarce.

There is an in between age when they are too old for laps but may struggle to hold on in a moving tube train/bus, though.

Irritates the hell out of me when you get big tourist families who Do Not Get Tube etiquette (or commuter trains) and have each of their four children taking up a seat on a packed tube, plus their luggage on other seats/somewhere awkward where it makes it hard for other people to stand. Selfish and ill mannered!

Mine are on my lap or standing. It's polite. I consider it good manners.

Yes I encounter far more rude adults than children.

All my friends children are well mannered and we are often cocomplimented by strangers telling us how polite and well behaved the madthings are. They will hold open doors, move to let people past, help if the see someone who has dropped something or is in any need and the elder three (14,12,9) will stand up on the bus if necessary. The little two need to sit down.

JenniferJo Thank God teachers like you are on the way out, you're a disgrace to the profession. I hope you've retired now, you certainly sound pretty desiccated.

I am retired but still much in demand for in service training because I was so good at my job. Head teachers are desperate for me to help their NQTs deal with behavioural difficulties that they are having in their classrooms.

I worked in Special Ed for most of my career and the children and the parents loved me. None of them were as rude as you, so it's as well we didn't meet.

I was asking the OP who states that she often sees children "taking up space"... Inconvenient these bloody small people

I travel a lot on public transport and I'm pleased that ime, manners are still mostly alive and well and that the majority of parents I see, do sit their kids on their laps/ask them to stand when adults need to be seated.

In fact, only on Mumsnet have I experienced this attitude that kids shouldn't do something nice like give up their seat for an older person.

Most of the parents I know personally, would be embarrassed that their child expected an adult to stand (on transport) or sit on the floor (indoors) while they sat on the couch.

I am not making my child stand or sit on the grubby floor on public transport

You what? The floor is too grubby for your child to stand on? How then does he/she cope with the grubby floor at school, or in a park, or in a shop? How do you cope with walking/standing anywhere if you think the floor is that grubby?

Giles - DD who is 4 is perfectly capable of standing on a crowded tube train without falling or getting whacked, I keep an eye on her and she's fine. She did it this week, in fact (she said she would rather stand than sit on my knee). I don't think she's anything out of the ordinary in this respect, but maybe she is. She knows to stand facing me in front or to the side of me (or facing into me if I'm standing too) so she won't get whacked, and to hang on tight to the pole. She hasn't got as far to fall as an adult should there be a sudden jolt. I don't get why it's not safe.

None of them were as rude as you, so it's as well we didn't meet.

The irony in that sentence is quite laughable seeing as it comes from somebody who is prepared to tell people they are making themselves look stupid because they have a difference of opinion.
Perhaps they ask you back for training so they can later discuss how things shouldn't be done.

"They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?"

if it's true then why is it bad manners?

You haven't been on the buses round here then where they stop so suddenly at times that I've seen people go flying.

And a child thrown right of her mums lap and whack her head on the floor

Missunreasonable. Spot on. I've had the misfortune to work with rude, opionated old school marms who treat pupils like cattle and believe themselves to be terrifc teachers when they're patently not.

JenniferJo you sound like one of my teachers of 40 years ago too.

I remember them all fondly and owe them a lot for the standards they helped instill in me.

I would always put them on my lap if it's busy, I think it's just courteous and the right thing to do.

I do also consciously try not to travel in rush hour with them but if it's unavoidable I would never expect a seat for them. It's my choice to travel at the busiest time. I am always amazed how many people seem surprised how busy trains and tubes are between 5-6pm when struggling with their children.

Not to mention the fact that on repeatedly trodden on when I stand.

This whole thread is why I walk 99% of the time and book seats for trains!

Actually where do we stand ('scuse the pun) with trains? People don't seem to complain about seating on those despite being massively over crowded. We always book in advance.

Yanbu. It's all about instilling respect.

If you allow your children to sit while adults stand, I judge you.

YABU

I went to the circus recently with DH and 2 DC. Someone asked both DH and I to put both children on our laps only

1. its the circus - seats and leg room are not large
2. we were charged by the circus for this specific seats. It wasn't cheap. In my world, which may be a tad selfish, if I pay for the seat, it is up to me what I do with it. And that day, due to the entitled and whining tone and the fact that they had their own seats they were already sat in, they belonged to DC. Meh.

Christ I don't know how I'll cope if people judge me

What I meant was I am not making my child stand on a train. Or sit on a grubby train floor

I don't think yabu.