to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

Agree completely with you Andy. And for what you went through.

There is a huge difference between 'entitled' children thinking they are untouchable and that adults have to earn their respect, and a child knowing that all people are born equal and deserving of respect, including them.

You can teach a child that they matter just as much as an adult, and teach them manners. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Most able bodied people arnt going to want a primary school dc turfed out their seat so they can sit down but all this my toddler will have its own seat because sitting on my knee is teaching it that it is not as important as an adult is utter bollocks

who said toddler? A toddler is certainly a better candidate than a bigger child, and I rode with my toddler on my lap usually, but I wouldn't say necessary.

The battle ground seems to be with a slightly older child, say 4-5, or even 3. I say they can have their own seat if they want just like everyone else.

Sorry to hear Andy. that's an awful thing to go through.

I think with kids swearing at teachers etc, they should be taught about both rights and responsibilities. it shouldn't be a one way street.

Thanks slithy you've summed it up perfectly.

Unfortunately my ds understood that he had responsibilities before he knew he had any rights - once mainstream education had got into the swing of exclusion as a form of 'curing' ASD (another story of course).

Somehow, beyond that, I still stick to encouraging a respect for his elders even though so many of whom have let him down and in spite of that I will continue to point out to him and encourage him to give up his seat for an elder person. Or anybody that obviously needs the seat more than he does. And if he doesn't do the right thing (which is hardly surprising as their are so few adults and elders around that he can respect) I'll give up my seat instead...and he will know by my 'attitude' and later explanations that he should have done so.

I will never change on this point. No matter what any 'bastards' do I/we will not become like them.

YABU If you are not able to stand, ask someone without children to give up their seat for you!

I know it's a lot of posts back but I00% agree sith Oddfod.

When I was a child it was about (a) maximising use of seats; ie an adult could take a small child on their lap thus ensuring that three people could get to use two seats on a crowded bus or train and (b) recognising that children of a certain age could stand with a lot less discomfort than most adults of 40 plus.

There is something unutterably depressing about parents staunchly defending their children's 'rights' while paying no attention to consideration, respect, generosity of spirit or simply teaching their children to notice when other people might be in greater need.

Pony why ask 'someone without children' to give up their seat when someone with a child could simply take their child onto their lap? That way no one has to stand and you also get a seat.

I swear, people are reading posts blind.

it goes without saying that those with a greater need should be offered a seat

The debate comes in to play, when arguably 2 people have the same need for a seat, but one is younger than the other. Certain posters believe that the child should give it up for the adult when their needs are the same. Others disagree.

Well the question posed on this thread was whether small children should sit on their parent's lap when a bus or train is full, rather than taking up a seat that could be used by someone else. That's not really asking a child to stand, rather that they and their parent share a seat so that the second seat is freed up for someone else.

Right. And if there is a second child on the second seat? That's allowed?

Well, no one's suggesting anyone should take two children on their laps.

Personally, I would expect a child old enough to be able to hold their balance to stand up for someone who was middle aged, elderly or pregnant or carrying a baby in their arms. It's just the way I would raise a child to behave.

Oh and I totally disagree with a poster up thread who seems to think that 3 is the cut off age at which a child should be asked to sit on a parent's lap when other people are standng.

Yes vintage because those people are vulnerable! As has been said countless times through the thread.

The debate occurs when people suggest a child should give up their seat for an adult who has no additional need for it.

But I would not assume that a ten year old should give up their seat for a 40 year old just on the face of it.

Children do not take up space. If so why did you have them?

I'm 'middle aged' and I don't expect anyone, child or adult to give up a seat for me. Why on earth would I? If I did expect a young person to jump up I think that I would be the one with an entitled attitude, not the young person.

My children are teenagers and would give up their seat to someone who looked like they needed it in exactly the same way I would becasue that's what I have modeled to them. I didn't need to boot them out of their seats when they were small in favour of any passing adult in order to teach them that. They got to squeeze up on sit on my lap at times, but like many others I would have been more likely to give up my seat and have them sit double than to make them stand.

When I was a child you just instinctively gave up your seat if adults were standing on the bus; and, if I recall correctly, if a child didn't the bus conductor would often tell them to. Nowadays I would expect a child to stand for an elderly person or a pregnant woman or someone obviously in need but it rarely, rarely happens here in Dublin anymore. It's usually another adult who offers their seat.

I really think though that some people over analyse things. Taking a small child on your lap in a crowded train or waiting room is just a practical solution to maximise the seating available. It has nothing to do with children's rights or teaching them that they're less important than other people and everything to do with showing a bit of pragmatism and consideration.

I agree with woowoo, the idea that just because I don't make my DCs give up their seats for adults means I am raising rude children is ridiculous. My DCs are polite and respecctful, they know to say please and thank you, to share their toys, to be friendly, to not be too noisy in public etc etc, but I am not teaching them that they should give up their seats for able bodied adults as I don't think that is necessary in order to be "polite" as some posters have said. If we are sat somewhere first and an adult arrives later why on earth should my DC stand or sit on me just so the adult can sit down? Obviously if someone needs the seat more that is different. But I will not be teaching my children that just because a) they are a child, and b) the other person is an adult, that the latter is more entitled than they are.

I guess it just comes down to whether people thing DCs giving up seats is polite or not, I don't consider it is. A lot of things used to be seen as essential to be polite (men standing up when a lady entered the room etc) but are now outdated. I think children being expected to give up seats sort of fits into the children should be seen and not heard mentality.

nooka sums it up nicely - you don't need to make your DCs give up their seats to anyone to teach them when it would be appropriate to do so.

OP, I agree with you regarding waiting rooms and events with non-assigned seating. But on public transport it's safer for younger children to be seated.
I have been on public transport in London where the trains and buses have been packed and it's frightening for them especially when they're moving fast and they can go flying. But they are always offered seats by London commuters and I could hug them!

I think it's more about the adult being polite in taking their child on their lap to free up a seat when people are standing.

Oh and I totally disagree with a poster up thread who seems to think that 3 is the cut off age at which a child should be asked to sit on a parent's lap when other people are standng.

what's the right age then? i.e. the age at which an able bodied child has less right to a seat than an able bodied adult.

Vintagejazz Sat 23-Aug-14 23:12:11

Well, no one's suggesting anyone should take two children on their laps.

Up until a year or so ago I used to sit one child on each knee on the metro. Couldn't do it on the bus though as not enough space. Kids are now 10 and 7 and the combined weight of the two of them is too much though. Youngest (almost 8 now) still sits on my knee on the bus or metro when it's full, but will probably be too tall to by the time she's 9.

so why should you be so uncomfortable just so others can be maximally comfortable?

writtenguarantee Tue 26-Aug-14 01:28:49

so why should you be so uncomfortable just so others can be maximally comfortable?