to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

Personally, I think the safest rule (and one I try to live by) is this:

If there aren't enough seats, and you don't feel you really NEED to sit down (e.g., illness, balance problems, etc.), then stand up. Even if you don't know whether the other people "need" it or not (e.g., no obvious disability), and even if you were there first. Because you just don't know, and what (other than some minor discomfort) is there to lose? I try to get my DC to do the same.

ooh yes sunbeds being reserved for kids that are never actually sitting on them, as they are too busy playing in the pool! Another pet hate.

Oh my, I remember being so proud when mum deemed me old enough to be allowed my own sun lounger! Amazing.

YANBU.

It's impolite for children to sit when adults are standing and where they can be on the lap of an adult if it's not unsafe for them to do so.

As an adult, I've given up my seat for toddlers to sit when on the tube because they need it more than I do, just like I give up my seat for all sorts of other people. It just depends on who needs the seat and who is able to stand better and it is just plain good manners to teach children.

Oh, and by the way, it is also in the Terms & Conditions of carriage that you have agreed to of most (if not all) bus and train companies that a child travelling free (under 5) may not occupy a seat to the exclusion of a fare paying passenger.

The vast majority of under 60 year olds don't have a physical problem sitting on the floor or getting up from the floor, I'm not particularly fit and 7 months pregnant and I would be really concerned about my overall health and fitness if I couldn't sit on the floor.

On public transport small children need a seat, I'd sit my child on my knee if possible but quite often I have bags and currently a huge tummy which makes a toddler sitting safely on my knee impossible.

Elderly, heavily pregnant and disabled people should be given priority for seats and young children should also be in that category on public transport. The rest of us regardless of age should just sit/stand depending on order of arrival.

It's not about entitlement to a seat. It's about teaching children some manners and respect.

I see way too many student age people (mainly women I have to say) that will plonk themselves and their bags in the first priority seats without so much as a thought for anyone else who might get on the bus.

My dd has been taught that we sit near the back as the seats at the front need to be accessible to those who are elderly/disabled/have children in pushchairs. She is 19 and will regularly give up her seat to someone older if the bus is full, as will I.

I don't think making my child stand up for the sake of a perfectly healthy and able adult means that I'm not bringing up polite, socially conscious, considerate children. I think I'm bringing them up to be all of those things, but I also don't want them to feel like I think a strangers comfort is more important than theirs and that they should be the last to be considered just because they're children. So I stick to the rule that if I would stand up for someone who needed my seat more than me, then my children should do the same. If there is no one around that looks like they need a seat more than me or my children, then we stay put.

I can remember feeling exhausted as a child and then being made to stand on public transport for the sake of an adult who would then say thank you to my seated parent instead of to me, and it just felt unfair. It's things like that that make children want to grow into adults too fast IMO.

"It's impolite for children to sit when adults are standing and where they can be on the lap of an adult if it's not unsafe for them to do so."

msanthropic sums it up neatly

Children rarely do 10 hour shifts then have to commute home and get the dinner on though. OP YANBU. Especially in the holidays when you're bone tired from commuting to work, working and commuting back and a 6yo is standing on their seat shouting down the carriage. Grrr. You could stand on the floor and do that!

YANBU. Totally agree. Pisses me off when I see tiny children sitting in tube seats etc while adults stand. And often they've got their shoes on the seat as well.

DISCLAIMER This view of course does not include people with any of the issues mentioned by the 'Ah, but what about those with x condition/y condition/massive shopping bags?' brigade already, or any similar comments to come.

My kids don't have the strength or coordination to stand on a bus. It was hard enough to get DS1 (10) to walk down a train grabbing backs of seats so he didn't get jolted, last week. If push came to shove, even though I'm hypermobile, too and have permanent joint damage, as a result, I'd rather that I stood and he sat, because I'm less likely to get thrown over, even though the effort would hurt me quite badly.

And sorry, but when we travel long distance on a bus in our area, his ticket is £8.50 to my £9.50. He's paid almost as much as an adult so he gets a seat, if there's one available, tyvm.

"I'm always bewildered and amused when I read (and only ever on mumsnet) that children have as much right to a seat as adults.

No, they don't. Really they just don't. Not unless they've paid full fair and not child's rates and even then they shouldn't be sitting down if an elderly or infirm adult is standing. Some MNetters seem to be in the process of rearing a generation of entitled brats with no manners."

I'm trying to think of something to add to that but I can't, it sums it up perfectly for me.

I don't think making my child stand up for the sake of a perfectly healthy and able adult means that I'm not bringing up polite, socially conscious, considerate children. I think I'm bringing them up to be all of those things, but I also don't want them to feel like I think a strangers comfort is more important than theirs

I brought my children up to believe that the comfort of strangers is more important than theirs, if they are young and fit and only paying half the price for their tickets.

It's basic good manners, no wonder the world is becoming full of young people who think the world revolves around them.

YANBU it's good manners and a nice thing to do. It also teaches children to be aware of the needs of others and help out where they can.

YANBU it's good manners and a nice thing to do. It also teaches children to be aware of the needs of others and help out where they can.

Mrsmorton exactly.

YANBU at all OP.

Until last year, when DS was 9 and DD 6, I would sit one child on each knee (despite the fact that they are both pretty heavy for their ages despite being skinny minnies!) on the metro as there is more space than on a bus, but DS has finally got too heavy for that. DD is almost 8 and is usually still fine with sitting on my knee if it gets busy. DS just has to stand now, on both bus and metro.

Thanks,hooby

ouryve does DS have hypermobility too?

JenniferJo Fri 15-Aug-14 12:25:39

I'm always bewildered and amused when I read (and only ever on mumsnet) that children have as much right to a seat as adults.

No, they don't. Really they just don't. Not unless they've paid full fair and not child's rates and even then they shouldn't be sitting down if an elderly or infirm adult is standing. Some MNetters seem to be in the process of rearing a generation of entitled brats with no manners.

It used to say on buses that children travelled at reduced rates as long as they didn't occupy a seat when an adult was standing.

By that reckoning, anyone making use of free, concessionary travel should be the first to stand up, then.

What if the only strangers around are young and fit looking Jennifer?

Like I said, if there's someone elderly, pregnant, etc that I would stand for then of course my children have been taught that they should stand for them. But otherwise I'm not going to send my children the message that they are less important than someone who is just as able to stand as they are.

I don't think the cost of the ticket is really relevant, pensioners don't pay full rate yet no one would deny they have more right than most to a seat.

I've thought about this a few times recently ever since someone texted in to Metro complaining about all the 'rude' passengers who didn't offer her child a seat on the Tube.

I was always made to stand or sit on someone's lap when I was a child. Seems the generally reasonable, considerate thing to do when:

1. children generally have much higher energy levels than adults
2. children won't have been at work all day
3. children will be travelling at a reduced fare (or free)
4. children generally find the fun in standing up whereas an adult is more likely to have something they need to do that would be much easier if they had a seat (do some work, make a phone call etc)

Obv this excludes people who for whatever reason cant have the kid on their lap, or children with any kind of difficulty standing.

I think it's interesting that so many people who think children should just sit down regardless talk about how children have just as much 'right' to a seat as anyone. Such a mean-spirited, narrow, self-centred way of approaching things, to start off by thinking 'what am I/my children' entitled to, rather than 'what can I do that's nice and considerate that will benefit someone else and do no harm to me?' Moreover, that attitude is just teaching a whole generation to approach life by thinking 'what's in it for me', 'what am I due?' rather than 'what can I give?' Very depressing.

In minor issues like offering up seats, if you're invoking your rights/entitlement, you sound like a bit of a plonker, and you're onto a losing wicket if that's the best argument you can come up with. It's not about rights, it's just about politeness and consideration, and the nicest compromise for the most people.

There's a difference, I think, between telling kids they're not important (no one's advocating that, I don't think) and telling kids that they can do something good here and help make sure there's not someone who would love to sit down and can't. If you want to protect your children, then it's worth keeping in mind that learning to consider other people first actually makes people happier in the long term. And they can learn to love the feeling of helping out. Also, helping kids to see that a bit of discomfort is perfectly tolerable is no bad thing.

woozlebear excellent post.

So all you people who think that a child has as much right to a seat as an adult would seat your whole family of kids, say in a dentist waiting room, and let the adults all stand because your little precious darlings shouldn't be uncomfortable standing or on your lap?

Okaay then. Manners are obviously not on your radar.