to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

Then put her on your lap and hold her tight, Miss.

There are some quite hysterical and hyperbolic people on this thread who seem to be delighting in taking general statements to extremes (3 and 4 year olds seem to be all anyone is prepared to discuss, rather ridiculously, because I assume 10 year olds don't make such good fodder for handwringing and because most reasonable folk wouldn't say a 3 year old should stand - they'd give up their seat).

Interestingly, many (but not all, I should stress) of that group avoid public transport, on a thread that has become almost exclusively about public transport.

empathetic yes some people do take that approach and it's always good to see but I don't think it is "the norm", it's not common IME. A man did it last week just suddenly randomly got up and started reading his book and I was a bit surprised TBH! Good for him.

Maybe it could be encouraged for people with shorter journeys or nearing their destination or something... Not sure. You'd need quite a sea change in behaviour for that i think. most people prefer to sit if possible I think!

I travelled regularly on tubes buses and trains since my 2 were babies.
When they were babies and toddlers one sat on my lap and the other stayed in the pushchair.
on tubes if we had to stand then would stay by door and lean against the wall. Im short i cant reach anything hanging so i find some where for dc and i to leam on.
Its simple and common sense.
i dont the hysterics on here about scary buses and trains etc with small children. My ds is 18 and dd 16 and they give their seat up when they see someone who needs it.

Sunna in the situation miss is talking about she has not got a seat either.

Jassy which posters are you talking about there? I assume you're talking about me and Giles? I commute into London on public transport and work full time, have done for about 25 years, mainly using the tube but occasionally the overground which I find is much more civilised! I'm sure Giles said she uses her local bus services frequently.

Apologies if I have misunderstood your post but I assume that was aimed at us?

I remember being young and in the early weeks of pregnancy. I looked very young for my age - probably late teens as I have always been small and slight. Unusually (I would normally stand), I sat in a priority seat as I was feeling sick and dizzy and it was the only free place. A middle aged man came up to me and, in a loud voice, on a packed silent carriage, boomed "Are you pregnant?" as the seat was marked as one for pregnant women. I was too embarrassed to do anything other than blush wildly and give up my seat to him I suppose on the basis he assumed I was a child on half fare. It's best never to make judgments about others' needs.

Kind of MrsS.

It seems that when you discount any vulnerability, you too believe that people are equal regardless of age?
Or have I read you wrong?

If it really was that dangerous then standing would not be allowed at all.

Interestingly, Lothian buses do not allow anybody to stand.

I wish people would get past the whole give up a seat for someone who needs it. That's a given.

What we are trying to hone in on, is should someone give up a seat for someone purely because they are older? With no additional requirement to the seat.

empathetic ooh hideous
what a horrible man

he, he, perhaps their bus drivers are particularly jerky?

slithytove no, I don't think one group should give up their seats for another for no reason. You are the only one to know whether you (or your DC) can stand well. If they/you can, then it's best to assume that somebody else might need the seat more then they/you) do if the carriage is crowded. If a child can fit on your knee then it is win/win.

I would stand and let my child sit on public transport and I would not ask my child to move for an adult unless I judged their need was greater.

For me the answer is no, slithy.
It's not something I was brought up with, and on our local transport there is no "cultural" expectation of it either.

Especially as you can't tell anything about anyone else, it's impossible to look at someone and say they should be doing x or y. For eg I have bad legs and always have had, but you wouldn't know to look at me. I am fine to stand on the tube but it made it trickier when I was pg and wobbly and also means I don't like to sit children on me. A young person may have had a terrible day or have a back problem or have had a full-on day training for sport or anything really. Like I say, for me though, I have no expectation there so vaguely aware of people who might be vulnerable in some way, it simply never occurred to me to want a seat off someone who is in school uniform say. I have never heard any of my friends, or my parents, mention this either or seen them sending eyebrows or anything.

I really don't think it's part of the culture on the transport I'm on.

Feet on seats makes me really annoyed though, that's my personal bugbear. And leaving half empty drinks cartons around for others to knock over and get all over them.

I had no clue that people were getting the hump with schoolkids, well apart from noise maybe, so I learnt something here today.

At least thread has bought back a nice memory for me. In my previous bus travelling days I remember getting on the bus with one child in a wheelchair and one able bodied child who was about 6 years old. I put the wheelchair in the accessible space and sat the 6 year old down on the nearest seat next to an elderly gentleman. The gent then insisted on moving so that I could sit down too. Of course I didn't let him move but he was adamant that I should sit with the children and that he didn't mind moving. I said that I would stand as the wheelchair brakes can be a bit unstable and it was better for me to hold onto it to stop it moving. When the gent got off a few stops later he was very unsteady on his feet and obviously needed the priority sets more than I did but he clearly saw me as a greater priority due to the wheelchair. He told me to take care and said I was doing a grand job. Giles and sevens post about people giving up seats just reminded me of this

See, I'm trying to envisage the whole 'respect your elders' concept in practice. Taking it away from children for the minute.

I'm in my 20s and look younger sometimes

Imagine someone who appears to be mid thirties and healthy, who does not ask for a seat, who I then offer my seat to on the grounds that "you are older than me".

I just can't see that happening! I also can't see that I am rude for staying on my seat.

I am now of an age where nice young men offer me their seats :-) I don't actually need to sit down particularly but I always accept and say thank you nicely so that I don't embarrass them.

Empathetic, perhaps they want you to sit down so that they can look down your top or perhaps they have been raised by the 'respect your elders brigade' and think they need to offer you seat because you look older than they are (even if by a year or two) or perhaps they take pity on you for wearing heels and think what a stupid choice of footwear, poor bird, her feet must be killing.
It is probably none of those reasons but the thread has got a bit circular so I though I would add more irrelevant nonsense .

A lot of people would be really offended slithy!

empathetic why not! They feel good and are encouraged to keep doing it, you get a seat,which is nicer than standing most of the time, everyone's a winner!

missunreasonable that is a nice story

It often seems to end up with people in vulnerable groups fighting over who gets to sit! While all the non vulnerable people over there >>> put their heads down and pretend they haven't noticed.

I think being in, or having been in a vulnerable group, makes you more aware of this stuff, probably.

YABU

I often think people look at me when my DS is sat on his own seat but it is very painful for him to sit on my knee. Post surgery problem. I am probably being judged because the pain is not visible. In fact I sometimes let him sit and I stand to allow someone else to sit because standing is less painful than something heavy sat on my knees!

Oh seriously? I was talking about those who have specifically said they avoid / don't often take public transport. Which is why I bloody qualified my comment as I did.

I suggest some people take an extremely deep breath if they're so fixated on everything being about them. [gtin]

, even.

Slithy, yes to equality regardless of age, if there is no vulnerability. If I am sitting down, and someone asks if they can have my seat, I will give it to them, no questions asked, as they clearly need it, or perceive that they need it more than me.

Re no standing on buses in Lothian, this is presumably because they travel longer distances and at greater speeds than London buses, which stop and start so much that it is often quicker to walk. My mother lives in the country and there is no standing on her buses that take her the five miles to the nearest town either.

The design of buses is also very different - I wouldn't want to stand on Lothian buses as they're just not built for it, London buses are very different (and you can only stand on the lower deck, again I wouldn't want to stand upstairs as it's not designed for safe standing).