to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

lol slithy well spotted

I haven't read the whole thread but I took a packed tube train with dd last Christmas (she was 4). A couple of people including an elderly gentleman offered us a seat. I was , she was clearly perfectly capable of standing.

Do you think that should be the norm, though, tobysmum?

Were you grateful to them for offering or did you think they should not have?

Can you understand why in situations where a tube is packed and a child cannot reach anything to hold onto it might be a good idea for them to have a seat?

Just out of interest.

Do I need to change my behaviour here, I guess.

That's not what I'm saying, it's nice people care but she was holding onto something and fine. I just hadnt seen us as a 'priority' group for a seat.

Miss I think you and seven have been agreeing throughout the thread?

Yes, i think I misunderstood her post Seven seems to be on the same page as me on the common sense to priority seating approach.

Actually re-reading it sounds like yes, it is the expectation that people should not offer seats for young children.

Fortunately, and as you found tobysmum, that is not the prevailing view.

The thought of a child crammed into a sea of legs with nothing to hold onto gives the heebiejeebies, I am surprised it is only a couple of us on the thread who see anything wrong with this.

I suppose it's easiest maybe as a parent with young children on public transport to simply stand irrespective, just so as to avoid causing offence. It's interesting, as people rarely give seats for pg or elderly people, and there is a concern they might have got it wrong and cause offence. Yet a young child is definitely a young child, and yet this is the one group who it seems there is a consensus on this thread should not be offered assistance.

Feeling a bit depressed about that TBH.

tobysmum on the tube young children are seen as needing seats, and they are the group who get them offered most frequently IME. When it's packed especially so due to the whole not being able to hold on / getting crushed / getting moved away from family thing. Commuters do not look down, they see a space at head height, not realising there is a small person there, and push. This happened when I was pg too, a space was perceived to be in front of me where my bump was, and people wanted to close that gap.

no seven I don't think it is even in London

tbh she had a ball, started chatting to some australian backpackers.....

its ok seven I just arked my arms and refused to get pushed. She wasn't in any danger honestly.

I think maybe my idea of a crowded tube differs! In my head she is mushed between at least 3 people who are pressing into her as hard as they can, with a little arm poking out hanging onto a pole with 2 fingers!

Obviously if a child can hold on safely that's fine.

I just don't like the implication on this thread that I am doing something wrong by considering young children to be vulnerable on public transport and to offer a seat, many have said that absolutely does not happen where they are. I thought London people were supposed to be unfriendly and mean!

You can't always judge who's in need of a seat. While I was waiting for a hip replacement standing was agony. I don't recall ever being offered a seat, and I think there were plenty of older children, teenagers and young adults who could have offered one - but the fact that I needed to sit down wasn't apparent. I think it would have been nice to see someone get up: there were a good few people standing but generally not one older child or teenager moved.

it was crowded, I just refused to be pushed and physically held my ground.

I guess the other interesting thing is at what age are the ok to stand? Maybe I was being unreasonable not to take a seat with a 4yo, but 5, 6, 7?

This is why they have the "baby on board" badges. Telling who needs a seat can be tricky. Offering your seat to every single person who gets on would be silly.

You're not unreasonable to take a seat or not as you choose toby! I don't like the implication that I shouldn't be offering, nor the implication that young children should be standing.

Refusing to be pushed sounds lovely! I was obviously utterly crap when I was pregnant.

I travel by bus alot

Multiple buses a day six days a week. Anything from 2 to 11 buses a day.

Some are quiet, others are busy.

The ones on the school run, well the way back it is often packed. With secondary school kids stood at the front with their back packs. I'd dd2 and I were to stand, there's a good chance she'd be knocked with those trollies or hae a walking stick on her foot as that's the only place (by the disabled space) where there would be a pole she could reach. If she stood near the doors, it would be a back pack in her face and run over by a buggy or trolly or trodden in by people getting on and off in a very cramped space.

I've sat her in the luggage bit before.jut to have her up and out the way.
We usually sit in the back seat with her on my lap and if it's quiet enough she will sit next to me.

If she is on my lap, or on the seat while I stand she is not taking up any more space than I would be and as a paying adult I would rather she had my seat so it's at the detriment of no body.

She however, will be much safer being able to hold onto the seat in front or the arm rest or even strapped in.

If she shares with her big sister who I also pay for then again she's not at the detriment of anyone because she's not taking up any space that I wouldn't be and I get both of them on the seat as really, I do to think dd1 should have to deal with he risks of standing either.

And I would always offer my seat to a small child. My kids often sit three to a seat while I stand. Dd1 on the end because she's usually older than then.

I find this all quite upsetting TBH.

I had a really traumatic time with commuting when pg and rush hour tubes can be just incredibly fraught. Literally rammed in like sardines with people pushing as hard as they can.

The idea of people thinking that little children should be standing up in that in order to give healthy mobile people a seat just baffles me and freaks me out a little too if I'm honest.

Luckily IME that is not what happens in real life. But people want it to be that way, clearly. Why? I guess that's my main interest.

It also makes me feel sad that apparently I was weak for not being able to "hold my ground".

There is a lot of talk about young children being "confident" in these situations as well.

If you are short and slight and 8 months pregnant, or a little child, is it weak not to be able to prevent yourself from being shoved by a weight of 6 or 10 people at your back pushing as hard as they can? Is it a result of lacking in confidence?

Maybe people do need to toughen up a bit. But then why bother with the priority seating and the "baby on board" badges?

I just don't know really. I could change my behaviour I suppose if that is really the way to do things.

Confidence has nothing to do with it.

As you say, the weight and strength and agility of other passengers is not something you can control and confidence won't stop you hittingyjeflooe or bones braking or skin bruising.

I find that argument rather strange.

I'm confident standing. I've still left with bruising or sore toes

Hitting the floor

"hittingyjeflooe" sounds like a 1920s dance!!!

I think I'm going to carry on as I am, and if others think I'm being out of line for offering seats to people then that's their problem.

Just urgh as I had terrible anxiety around commuting when I was preg and threads like this set it off a bit.

sillystring what a disgusting comment. Of course children come second to adults. I could write a book about how crap parenting has impacted pupils but one huge issue is that patents teach kids that the world owes them something. The world owes us all nothing. Respect for elders is vital. Then one day they too will be elders. Teaching kids to be entitled is the mark of the uneducated.

:o

My iPhone is f**ked it's been really playing up past two days.

I agree with you completely seven

And I won't be changing either. I take up as little space as possible and give other children a seat next to mine so they are safer. My kids don't mind and will happily scootch up to make room and dd1 will put up with any elbows or accidental bumps as a result from being a bit squeezed up.

I take up as little space as I can.

And another one.

So a person who thinks a 4yo shouldn't have to stand on a packed tube at rush hour (unless they are perfectly safe and want to and etc blah) is thick.