to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

Children sitting on an adults lap will be at no more risk than sitting on a seat without a seatbelt. Accidents on buses are rare, and most of them are old or disabled people falling over either when they are forced to stand, or getting on and off the bus.

Totally agree with Bouttime. Also agree with previous post stating that people with a lack of manners breed children with a lack of manners etc etc. Luckily most of bad mannered parents/ children on public transport still in the minority.

Apologies as this is slightly off-topic but the thread has reminded me that, a few weeks ago, I was standing on the bus going home when a very good looking young man of about twenty tapped me on the arm and smiled at me and for a mad, delicious moment, the years rolled back and I thought he was going to chat me up...

... then he stood up and offered me his seat

Anyway as you were.

Misunreasonable

Children under the age of 5 who travel free on tubes and busses or trains etc are not entitled to seats if there is an adult standing, that is a normal condition of carriage, so if they are small enough to sit on laps it is unlikely you have paid for a ticket, therefore you child has no right to sit in a seat when an adult is standing

And what of the mum
Is already standing and the under four is on a seat?

Should they endanger themselves as they didn't pay?

And what of the mum
Is already standing and the under four is on a seat?

Should they endanger themselves as they didn't pay?

If the bus did an emergency stop, a 4 year old would be safer on their mum's lap.

Although Giles I have never seen the scenario you describe actually happen. I have seen adults and very young children sitting in seats, while adults are standing.

bruffin

Children can travel free up to 16 on TFL.
Do you really think they are not entitled to seats?
What about pensioners, who also travel free?

Silly argument.

Well If you did then what would u suggest?

Because I have stood many a time and put my kid on the seat. Because it's safer

"I have seen adults and very young children sitting in seats, while adults are standing."

This often happens on the tube when it is crowded it is often safer and less inconvenient for people who are standing, to have the child sitting and the accompanying adult standing.

Whether this is accceptable or not according to the rules on here, I have no idea.

The way I see it, the child can still have seat - just on a parent's lap - and an extra person gets to sit down. (Probably somebody else has made this point and I have missed it...) It's not so much that children are lesser, it's that they're smaller...

Is it ok for the child to have the seat and the adult to stand, mehsmum, as that is still one seat taken?

Or as that takes a standing space also is that not the right thing?

Its not a silly argument. Pensioners are tickets are paid for by their council to the bus company, the bus company are not bearing the cost of the ticket.

Who do you think is paying for the travel on TFL to age 16???

Yes do tell,

I'm standing, I've strapped my three yr old in or wedged them both onto one seat and standing beside them, and an able bodied adult gets on the bus,no one moves, should my three or seven yr old go standing at the front getting jostled about so they can sit??

So all children should stand to age 16 on London Transport because their tickets are free (paid for by the taxpayer essentially).

All pensioners should get a seat even though their tickets are free (paid for by the taxpayer essentially).

A fit and healthy 60yo should be seated instead of a 4 yo even on a crowded tube at rush hour because of age.

I can't see many fit and healthy 60yo going along with the TBH but feel free to keep offering.

The thing is, where you have a train / bus / waiting room / whatever that's overcrowded with people standing, and you are able to have your child on your lap safely, then surely that's just a logical way of freeing up more seats? It's not about whose rights trump whose

Fyrefly around here when the transport is full there are plenty of fit, healthy able-bodied adults, who can stand, and thus the small child and the elderly person can both have a seat. That's the way it should work anyway.

The idea that an old person who needs to sit and a 4yo should fight it out while a bunch of fit healthy people sit around watching them is horrible.

maybe the child could sit on the old person, if the old person is able and willing to hold them.

he parent has the 4 year old on their lap, the 60 year old has a seat. No problem.

Plenty of 60 year olds who are healthy but have dodgy knees or backs by the way.

But the parent with kid on lap or kid on their own takes one seat so what's it matter if she's on lap or not.

If parents standing should that child move for an adult at four on a tube?

Because I would choose to stand so me and kid were more comfortable but I'd choose to stand even with option of sitting on lap. But it's one seat either way

capant plenty of under 60s can have dodgy knees or backs. Not sure what your point is there?

Are you saying that if there is a child and an adult, and the child is what, non fare paying in that particular region, they can have a seat but they must both use it? What if the adult wants to let the child sit for some reason, what is wrong with that? Is it because they are then taking a standing space also?

I have seen situations where the adult is standing and the seat is shared by two children. As children go free on TFL up til 16, must they always stand?

If it's a 4yo and a 2yo on the seat, with their parent standing, then they both stand because there is an adult nearby who doesn't have a seat, yes?

Some people get up if there are people who need seats irrespective of whether anyone takes it. I guess because they are fine and they don't want to second guess who may or may nor need a seat. Is this the approach that is being recommended here? For all non fare paying people or just the young ones?

If I offer my seat to a child, that goes against the rules. I think the rules some people have in their heads are stupid.

It should be according to need and according to safety and so on. Not just, you're under 16, you must stand, irrespective.

Does anyone have concerns about standing room? Out of interest. If a train is crowded and standing spaces are at a premium, does that count for the whole paid/not paid thing?