to think parents should make room for adults by getting their kids to sit on their laps.

[Bouttimeforwine]

I have always done this, in waiting rooms, on buses, anywhere really. Even till they were too big really to be sitting on laps. Even now I will get them to sit on the floor at friends houses so that adults get the chairs. It's polite and the way I was brought up.

I often see children taking up a space, when it would be easy just to pop them on your knee for a short period of time. I know for a fact that some of these parents have no physical reason not to do this. They just think that their child has as much right as an adult to have that seat. True but it's not good manners is it?

AIBU?

And gotta love the line about she hasn't got as far to fall

It's not about distance ffs it's about being trodden on or fallen on top of, or not being seen.

fuck off with your comments Giles, that was totally unnecessary. I just said what my experience was, and I did say that I didn't think she was out of the ordinary but maybe she is unusually steady on her feet.

How fucking dare you say that, how fucking dare you say I don't care about my child.

Koala why are you FFSing left right and centre.

Often the parent doesn't have a seat so sitting on the parents lap is not an option. In that situation people will often give a seat up and either the parent will sit with the child on their lap or if the child is bigger / parent is smaller, they will have the child sit and they will stand. If there is more than one child they will try to share a seat / sit on each other but I have seen more than one person stand so that children can sit.

I do think there is an age around 7 / 8 even 10 depending on size where it can be iffy for a child to stand in certain circs but they are too big to go on a lap.

Can I just refer people to this article about why I an convinced that even an older child should not stand up for a fit and able bodied adult.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3934321.stm

Bouttime, dentists waiting rooms are not normally moving and braking, and full of people crushed together.

You may are about your child.

But clearly you care more about strangers perception of politeness if you think for a second that even if it's fun that standing in a bus or tube train is remotely a good idea.

In a paid seat situation is circus theatre cinema. Is totally reasonable for you to keep the seat!
Your money why should you give up your booked seat for another stranger. That's the establishments issue to sort if patrons are not happy with seat allocation

Public transport however is different. If children are free then thy should make way to others that have paid if the transport was full. Either by lap or standing if old enough. Unless parent has medical issue of their own.

I am shaking with anger that you said that. Oh, and the far to fall bit was in jest, but don't let that stand in your fucking way.

I remember how bloody tired I got after work, DD was full of beans and as perky as you like. Why not allow someone else a seat? Oh, because I'm a selfish and irresponsible parent, that's why.

Fucking heard it all on MN now.

Oops should add child has a medical issue also.

Sorry that was the wrong article, it was this campaign about children on buses
www.schoolbus.org.uk/index.asp?pageid=176317

Our local buses actually have no official standing space listed. There's signs that tell you to stay seated until the bus stops. I'm surprised that this still isn't the case in so many places.

I always offer my seat for a young child, and I commute every day into London.

That is the norm, Tam, people offer seats to small children more regularly than anyone else because it is patently risky for them otherwise.

I don't understand how you think it is safe for a 4yo to stand on crowded tubes. They often haven't got anything to hold on to and get elbowed in the face and all sorts. People don't notice them in the crowd. It is scary for them.

And children aren't free here, madeye. The 5 mile each way journey into Durham from here is £3.60 return for a child. I know some areas have very heavily subsidised travel for local children, but ours isn't one of them.

I remember how bloody tired I got after work, DD was full of beans and as perky as you like. Why not allow someone else a seat? Oh, because I'm a selfish and irresponsible parent, that's why.

I'm sure we have all been exhausted at times, but I would never compromise my child's safety or expect anybody else to compromise their child's safety just so that a tired adult can have a seat. I say that with regard to sitting children on laps too as it creates a risk of crushing them if the bus jerks forward (main reason why it us illegal to sit children on laps in cars).

God, everyone on MN has to take it to the extreme, don't they?

Barely anyone on this thread is actually saying "make all children stand, even if it's dangerous"

What people are saying is if it's busy and you can plonk a child on your lap to make a seat free then do that. If your child is older and can stand, maybe it's a nice thing for them to stand and let someone else sit.

But no, we have to take it all to the most extreme place going because, you know, it's Friday afternoon and it's much more entertaining to start suggesting that posters don't care about their children because they've done something you wouldn't have done.

because we've done it many times, Seven and it's never been a problem. It's not unusual on tubes not to get a seat at all, and me and DD have been fine, I am close to her always and never had an accident. She knows to hold on tight, and she's perfectly steady and has never even been slightly knocked. Ever. In over 4 years of travelling on tubes together.

I have never seen an adult offer a seat to a child. I've seen seats offered to mothers/fathers so they can have the child on their laps but that's all.

It's not the norm around here, Seven, quite the reverse.

Tam, I hear you. I may be wrong but I'm of the belief that entitled, mannerless children become entitled, mannerless adults and that entitled, mannerless adults breed entitled, mannerless children.

If a small child can reasonably sit on a lap and seats are full, they should do so to create another seat.

If an able bodied adult or older child can reasonably stand and seats are full, they should stand and give their seat to an older or disabled person.

Children can be standing or sitting, it's the parents job to hold them. I've gotten on standing buses before and the kids did just fine standing with the adults. If they slam forward, they'll learn to hand on to the pole better next time.

People who think it is even remotely sensible to sit children on laps to free up seats on buses need to go and look at videos of what happens in an accident when a child is travelling in a vehicle on an adults knee.
I am well aware that two decades ago people regularly sat children on laps in cars and on buses etc but we know a lot more about the consequences of this in an accident now. Two decades ago people regularly used to carry eight people in a car designed for five and children would happily ride along in the boot of a car but we now know that it isn't safe.
Children are safest when very young in their pushchair with the brakes applied. Once they are past the pushchair stage they are safest sitting on a seat. Sitting on an adults lap is not the safest way for a child to travel on a bus or any other road vehicle.

seven but the op is about giving up seats in general not just about transport. How many of those people saying a child is just as entitled to a seat on transport, would say the same in a dentists wating room?

Safety aspect aside, the aibu was regarding manners in this situation.

Wow.

Well I'm not going to stop offering my seat when I see young children standing, and I certainly won't be expecting little ones to have to stand so that I can have a seat.

I've been commuting in London for 25 years and really people do give up their seats for little ones more than even for pregnant or older people.

That is my experience anyway so strange it is so different from others who commute in London as well.

Still there you have it. I'm not going to stop and I don't think it is at all reasonable to expect a young child to stand on packed transport.

Tam I am interested to know what, exactly, your child is holding on to. You? Another commuter? Because if you do it a lot there is no way your child has always handily ended up near a pole. On my line poles are not that frequent at all, most people hang onto overhead poles, which obviously 4 year olds cannot reach.

Honestly MN is nuts.