To be offended at people using "stupid" and "Irish" interchangeably?

[Yogahoneybunny]

Just that really - I am Irish and have been living in Scotland for a few years, and it has happened repeatedly. I am never quite sure what to say as it is always a flippant casual remark (e.g. In work someone often says a certain system is a bit Irish) but I find it weird given I am obviously Irish. I have sometimes said back that maybe they should think about what they are saying, given that I am Irish myself, but I seem to be viewed as hyper-sensitive.
Any ideas of a good come-back as I am useless at these things?!

I'm Scottish and I've never heard anyone making those references to Irish folk - maybe it's a regional thing?

Who knows why people make moronic comments?

I have had lots of English men (only men) taking the piss out of my accent when I lived in England and even where we live now. As soon as I open my gob they interrupt me and turn into hideous parodies of Gerard Kelly

Some even have the grace to allow me to speak first and then they reply in a cringeworthy parody of a Scottish accent.

Every single one of them has always then looked very pleased with themselves and seems to expect approval/amusement from me…?

Completely inexplicable. It's as if they think I'm from another planet.

On the flip side of that my and my DH have a juvenile private expression we use where we replace his (wanker) boss's surname with fucked in the following sentence (let's pretend his surname is Smith)

"Oh you've Smithed that right up" it makes us feel good.

OP my Irish mate said one of the most offensive things you can say to someone in Ireland is "yer ma's yer da" or a simple "shut it ya bam" should suffice.

I'm sorry, Janine, but I am sitting here agog at your question.

I have a Masters in History, and understand very well the limitations of historical evidence, but the idea that someone could just continually assert that something is true without any supporting evidence seems absurd to me.

This may seem counter-intuitive, as it seems to be the accepted view (on this thread anyway), but the people who are saying that 'beyond the pale' is a reference to the Pale of Dublin are making an assertion. An assertion requires evidence.

I am not stating that it definitely does not refer to the Pale of Dublin, just that there is no evidence to support the assertion that it does. (Even in my patronising QI post, I didn't go so far as to say that it was wrong).

But seriously, if we don't need evidence, then anybody can say anything about any historical 'fact'. Why do you not need evidence?

badtime If you look under 'Norman decline', the third bullet point refers to it. I don't where the reference would come from. The Anglo-Normans were probably spoke Norman-French. Would writing and laws have also been in Norman-French and Latin during this period. Would there have been much writing in English even in England during this time? Especially from those in power.

Are there any scholars of this period on the website?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland_%281169%E2%80%931536%29

Ah no the most offensive thing you can do is upon entering your home you do not offer a visitor tea/coffee/cola/water/sandwich/a biscuit/a bit of dinner.

Sorry, 4th bullet point.

There must be documents from this time in archives somewhere. French or latin?

I'm not going to play top trumps with you about qualifications, badtime, but I politely suggest that perhaps you could think about folk history and oral tradition which largely exist outside 'written sources', until the point that they are collected and transcribed. Evidence is not only written evidence, and most certainly not limited to the OED.

You know on 'QI' when something that 'everybody knows' is shown not to be the case? This is like that
^
And you did effectively say that it was wrong in your QI post.

There must be documents from this time in archives somewhere. French or latin?

Most Irish records before the 20th c went up in smoke in 1922.

Yeah, I know it's Wiki, but

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

I am not disputing the use of the word 'Pale' to refer to the area of English hegemony in late Medieval Ireland.

There must be some records in England. The pale was the administrative area.

was it the original though?

Not very many, Pangurban. It makes medieval and early modern and parts of modern Irish history very difficult to research. There are enormous holes.

Hehe Still same in Scotland the rule is visitors cannot leave until they feel nauseous from being rammed with food & drink my nana was a feeder demon!

It is strange to see a division between the Scots and Irish (I am a bit of both) - we come from the same ancestors/cultural traditions.

I've only ever heard this at home (Dublin) from my parents. I do call them on it.

EmberElf - except in Edinburgh where, invariably,
'you'll have had your tea'
is said in a firm voice, brooking no argument

firstchoice my Edinburry family's war cry is "huv a plate ae soup hen, goan it's homemade the day" with a slab of plain bread & butter.

Mmmmmm plain bread

I guess at least 99% of people using 'beyond the pale' in England have no clue about any possible connection to Ireland - I'm quite interested in the origins of words and always just assumed it meant outside some metaphorical enclosure. Language evolves. My 4 year old has been singing "Eeny meeny miny mo, catch a pirate by the toe". I don't think that's racist either.

Well, pirate isn't. The original word was changed. That's the whole point.

YANBU it's a ridiculous thing to say.

FWIW I heard a colleague refer to something as a "redheaded stepchild", clearly implying that it wasn't wanted. I spoke up to ask my colleague not to use such a phrase again and my face apparently turned bright redand the next day, my manager pulled me into his office to ask why I was offended, and even asked me whether I was a stepchild! He seemed to genuinely think I was overreacting.

My point is that the rhyme's origins are racist but its meaning is inoffensive. So 'beyond the pale's origins may be racist but its literal meaning (outside the enclosure) isn't at all. Only historical knowledge can make it offensive.

Not really Marrog. Beyond the Pale is a real place where my ancestors came from. So forgive me for being offended still. I agree with you that not many people appreciate that it is a real place rather than a figure of speech.

And there are also many Irish people who know the origin of the phrase yet aren't offended by it and even use it themselves.

Squoosh, maybe, but it's different living in England, it was different for the people who came here from Ireland and different again for their English accented offspring (people speak more freely when they don't know you're Irish).

I'm Irish and I haven't heard anything like that for years...I can still remember "Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman" jokes from the 90s though

I'm half Irish (father Irish) and I love a good '' Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman' joke!

People should stop being so precious and oversensitive.

My mother (Welsh) on the other hand, hasthe sheep shagger jokes thrown at her - mainly by us! She thinks its a laugh and it doesn't bother her one bit.

People should toughen up and stop being offended by every little thing.