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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be offended at people using "stupid" and "Irish" interchangeably?

244 replies

Yogahoneybunny · 13/08/2014 20:29

Just that really - I am Irish and have been living in Scotland for a few years, and it has happened repeatedly. I am never quite sure what to say as it is always a flippant casual remark (e.g. In work someone often says a certain system is a bit Irish) but I find it weird given I am obviously Irish. I have sometimes said back that maybe they should think about what they are saying, given that I am Irish myself, but I seem to be viewed as hyper-sensitive.
Any ideas of a good come-back as I am useless at these things?!

OP posts:
gointothewoods · 14/08/2014 00:29

Interesting - googled "having a paddy" - not a phrase ever used in Ireland, or in anywhere other than the UK. Refers to an Irish drunk person throwing a drunken strop basically.
Lovely!

SallyMcgally · 14/08/2014 00:30

That's dreadful sarcastic.

Glastokitty · 14/08/2014 00:34

Yes to me it means being a bit illogical, or silly, rather than stupid. I haven't heard anyone using 'a bit Irish' to mean stupid since the early nineties when I moved to London, and there was still a fair bit of anti-Irish feeling.

On a similar note though there was a bit of an uproar about a cartoon my local paper published. I live in Perth, Oz and they are building a new hospital and actively recruiting nurses from Ireland. The paper published a cartoon joking that all the nurses were called Colleen, and one of them was a leprechaun. It wasn't a very funny cartoon, and some of the Irish community are in uproar saying its racism. I cant bring myself to be upset about it, although I am very hot on any other perceived racism. Perhaps it should annoy me, but it doesn't, to me its just the aussies taking the piss, like we do out of them.

SallyMcgally · 14/08/2014 00:37

going heard this many times in Ireland. It's origin is the padded wagon for lunatics and criminals and throwing yourself about in it. It's not racist.

RonaldMcDonald · 14/08/2014 00:40

Going

I am Irish and would say 'she threw a complete paddy'
I didn't realise it had anything to do with Paddy as in an Irish term

TalcumPowder · 14/08/2014 00:40

Yes to perceived correlation of Irishness and stupidity. I did a doctorate at a Oxford, and from some responses, you'd think I was a talking pig who could do simultaneous equations.

One of the worst offenders was in fact a Scottish minor aristo, but I assume that was because he was a fool, rather than in any way related to his nationality.

SallyMcgally · 14/08/2014 00:42

ronald it doesn't.

Wetthemogwai · 14/08/2014 00:45

merry I reject that. It was not at all disgraceful.

It was said by a naive 18 year old stuck in an awful situation with a bitch of a housemate making everyone's life a misery and it was something to get back at her.
Admittedly, that is no excuse to be racist and if that we're the case I'd agree with you. However, in this instance the term was never considered racist, she never considered it racist but she was offended by it.

Looking back, yes it was inappropriate, naive and immature however it was never intended as a racist or derogatory term and the meaning behind it was never considered. She was an arsehole and I wanted to annoy her, simple as that.

Maisyblue · 14/08/2014 00:50

I too am amazed that people haven't heard the expression. The Irish have born the brunt of racist jokes for years, particularly the " there was an English man" type jokes with the punch line at the end with Paddy being the thick one. My mum, who was Irish was always offended by these jokes and also any remark referring to the Irish as thick. What makes it worse is that usually the person making the remark is as thick as two short planks.

Toadinthehole · 14/08/2014 01:09

Hooligan.

Still very much in common usage, albeit with its roots forgotten.

Toadinthehole · 14/08/2014 01:15

Nb (with reference to posts above about Eng kids in Scotland). I have 2 kids at school in NZ. Considered by their teachers to have (English) accents. Nothing considered to be wrong about them.

At last rugby world cup, one took an English flag to school. No one took offence, and indeed why should they?

No one considers us to be 'not fitting in' or any such nonsense.

mimishimmi · 14/08/2014 01:33

firstchoice It's funny you mention that. I have very little English in me but quite a lot of Scots and Irish. DH is from India and he mentions quite often that we share a similar history of oppression from England and at least he didn't marry one of them. Grin. I see that part of myself as Celtic though and there were plenty of those in England too. I think the image that comes to mind when people think of 'stupid' and 'Irish' are actually the flaxen or red-haired, ruddy skinned descendants of the Vikings - plenty of whom are in England as well.

People make insensitive ethnic jokes all the time. I guess the only response would be to make a cutting remark about theirs if you can find the right angle ...

SallyMcgally · 14/08/2014 01:40

Unless your husband is pretty elderly, mimi, he'd be hard pressed to have found 'one of them' to marry . . .

Toadinthehole · 14/08/2014 01:48

My Scottish and Irish ancestors went ask over the place oppressing the natives bringing civilisation. The English ones largely stayed in England.

scottishmummy · 14/08/2014 06:30

There are negative stereotypes for nationalities,not factual of course
Repressed emotion,stiff upper lip is being english.read it in mn other day
Tight,stingy is scottish

WilburIsSomePig · 14/08/2014 08:19

is this Scots sectarianism rearing its ugly head?

I wonder why the Scots still think it is OK to make racist jokes about the Irish?

A couple of sweeping generalisations there I think? I'm Scottish (living in England and married to an Englishman) and i don't, nor do I know any fellow Scots, that think it's 'OK to make racist jokes about the Irish'. What a ridiculous comment.

The original comment is a horrible one and I haven't heard it since I was a kid in the 70s when people sometimes said in in a jokey way. And no, before anyone says anything, it wasn't funny them and it's not funny now.

As an aside, I was actually told to 'go home' about 6 months ago as I had taken an English person's job so I have experienced issues myself first hand. There are arseholes, of all nationalities, everywhere.

corkgirlindublin · 14/08/2014 08:29

Wetthemogwai - honestly its inexcusable and I doubt you would be so flippant using a deliberately derogatory expression for any other nationality / race. You are making yourself look pretty stupid defending it.

I have lived all my 32 years in Ireland and had never heard the expression "having a paddy" till mumsnet. And I have never heard "irish" being used to describe something stupid till I read this thread. If something is very bureaucratic or something you might say "jesus this is so typically irish". That is the only context I can think of. I have lived in 3 other countries for substantial time periods I can assure you that the Irish are no more stupid or cheeky than any other race.

However the general ignorance of British people about Ireland always alarms me so i'm not too surprised. There seems to be no understanding that the North of Ireland is a separate state for starters. I am sure that while there are plenty do understand the complex history between our counties, the ignorant always shout louder I suppose.

StillFrigginRexManningDay · 14/08/2014 08:49

There was a massive thread in site stuff I think last year where some posters explained to MNHQ that anti Irish posts were racist. And I did point out the meaning of Beyond the Pale, a phrase used by MNHQ but to no conclusion.
Racist terms against black people, asian people, middle eastern, wherever else a person could be from are looked down on and quite rightly so but it still seems like its ok to be racist against the Irish.

Mumzy · 14/08/2014 08:52

Was v shocked when professional middle class Scottish colleagues down for a conference referred to the local convenience store as a P*is and when they wanted a chinese takeaway they were going to the Ch**kys

fassbendersmistress · 14/08/2014 09:01

I heard this a lot in Scotland nearly 20 yrs ago in my first job. Can't believe it's still being trotted out.

The answer is clearly not to lower yourself to her level, but I do wonder what she'd make of it if you were to throw in a (very inappropriate) comment about 'thieving scousers' in a nod to her roots....

Reallyneedaholiday · 14/08/2014 09:15

For those saying they've heard this in Ireland - where? If you don't mind me asking, are you from the north? I'm from Dublin, have lived in the west and southeast and have never heard 'a bit Irish' not meaning something stupid. You might say it about something that was a bit Irish, ie specific, but generally in an affectionate oh aren't we hilarious, where else would you find this sort of carry on kind of way. Not to refer to something broken, and not in the way I've heard it in England.

Re paddy wagon, throwing a paddy etc - paddy wagons weren't padded, they were used to transport drunks and criminals, mostly Irish. There's plenty on the web to support that etymology. I've always heard throwing a paddy as a derivative of that - but again, never ever in Ireland, only since I've lived in the uk.

I do find all of this offensive btw, there's a real undercurrent to a lot of people who use it. Currently living in London though and haven't heard anything like it here. I would absolutely call someone out, but calmly and gently, perhaps in a 'have you a problem with me living here? With me being Irish' way. Agree a lot of people are just parroting and not thinking through.

WilburIsSomePig · 14/08/2014 09:22

I have also had 'oh yeah typical Scot' when accepting an offer of a glass or wine or something. Never head it said to anyone else. Like I said before, there are arseholes everywhere.

onedev · 14/08/2014 09:46

I'm from NI & now living in England (Midlands) & hear stuff like this quite a lot. Being derogatory about Irish people still seems to be considered ok when I know for a fact the same individuals would never say it about any other race / nationality etc. I do pull people up on it every time & generally it seems like they haven't given thought to what they've actually been saying & so most people have now stopped (at least around me!) but I do find it extremely insulting & think a lot less of those individuals.

Also never heard it until living in England nor 'having a paddy' & regardless of the etymology of the phrase, those using it believe it's about Irish people. Horrible.

JanineStHubbins · 14/08/2014 10:12

I was once asked at a job interview in England about the 'political baggage' I would bring with me if I got the job. Outrageous.

I find 'a bit Irish' and 'throwing a paddy' very offensive.

wigglesrock · 14/08/2014 10:16

StillFriggin..... I remember that thread - not one of MNHQ finest hours. I won't use beyond the pale or any throwing a paddy type of phrase. I'm in NI.