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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be offended at people using "stupid" and "Irish" interchangeably?

244 replies

Yogahoneybunny · 13/08/2014 20:29

Just that really - I am Irish and have been living in Scotland for a few years, and it has happened repeatedly. I am never quite sure what to say as it is always a flippant casual remark (e.g. In work someone often says a certain system is a bit Irish) but I find it weird given I am obviously Irish. I have sometimes said back that maybe they should think about what they are saying, given that I am Irish myself, but I seem to be viewed as hyper-sensitive.
Any ideas of a good come-back as I am useless at these things?!

OP posts:
Redglitter · 13/08/2014 22:13

Don't generalise and tar all Scottish people with the same brush. That's just as offensive in itself.

If someone is using an offensive saying it's got sod all to do with their nationality. It's cos they're an ignorant bugger

firstchoice · 13/08/2014 22:14

Yes, Sally, the Head laughed heartily and the Ed Psy and Head of LEA told me why it was 'correct' too? Hmm

thanks for the welcome back (haven't felt welcome for 20 years Grin
but, given I have an RP accent and am moving to Newcastle, I may not be all that welcome yet ... Confused

Shame we don't all just bloody accept each other a bit more, huh?

Helloandhowdoyoudo · 13/08/2014 22:15

Usedtobeapaxmanfan this phrase is alive and well in Cambridge!

It was said to me only a couple of weeks ago when moaning about how a form had to be filled in, I pointed it might be a stupid way to do it but calling it 'an Irish way of doing it' wasn't going to get any brownie points from me considering I was Irish and I would actioning what he wanted!! My colleague told him he was on very dodgy ground - he apologised with the phrase 'no offense meant'!!

This was in a University Department.

LizLimone · 13/08/2014 22:16

Why does your Scottish born child have an English accent, firstchoice? Was s/he born in Scotland but then moved to England and then moved back to Scotland again? Or have you actively discouraged him/her from blending in? Can't think how a Scottish born and raised child would not have a Scottish accent otherwise.

I met some English people in Scotland who expressed horror at the idea of their Scottish born children having local accents which I always found bizarre because I would never choose to live somewhere if I was appalled at the idea of my DC sounding local. Just found it an odd attitude and an indication that some of the anti-English feeling is self-inflicted.

As was some of the anti-Irish feeling too of course. I found it odd too to meet Scottish people who talked about being Irish when their ancestors probably were last in Ireland about 150 years ago! Surely that made them just Scottish, same as any one else??

scottishmummy · 13/08/2014 22:17

Lets be clear some folk are gits.its not a national characteristic of scots

Letthemtalk · 13/08/2014 22:18

Scottish mummy, agree totally. After all some of my best friends are Scottish.. ;)

SallyMcgally · 13/08/2014 22:18

firstchoice I love NE. Hope you'll feel happy there! I know loads of people with RP up there. ( I have RP too, and you're right. It doesn't always help.) But hopefully it will be fine.

Bunbaker · 13/08/2014 22:18

I apologise for generalising about Scottish people and their comments bout Irish people, but many of the comments posted on here agreed with the OP, and I wanted to point out that I haven't heard any derogatory comments bout the Irish for many, many years in England.

firstchoice · 13/08/2014 22:19

Red and backward - no, it's certainly not 'all Scots'.

There are some really enlightened Scottish people.
And some really backward ones.
Just like the English, and the Irish, and the Welsh, and the Maltese etc.

SallyMcgally · 13/08/2014 22:20

Liz if the kid is still quite small and has two English parents it's perfectly understandable. You wouldn't need to discourage at all.

scottishmummy · 13/08/2014 22:22

And of course its offensive to refer to something iffy as irish

firstchoice · 13/08/2014 22:28

LizLimone -

Don't be daft!
I think you may be projecting some of your experiences with other people onto me?

My elder child speaks using plenty of Scottish words - he takes 'a shot on the chute' for example, but has an English accent like dH and I.
My younger child has more of a local accent.
It's just one of those things.

It certainly doesn't indicate: 'an odd attitude and an indication that some of the anti-English feeling is self-inflicted'

(just like my child's dyslexia is neither self inflicted nor a result of having an English accent) Hmm

SallyMcgally · 13/08/2014 22:34

liz Just read your post again. How on earth would people expressing pride in their Irish heritage (however legitimate you deem this to be) mean that any anti Irish feeling they incur is self inflicted??

nocheeseinhouse · 13/08/2014 22:43

People could think I'm guilty of this, I suppose. When people say things about my life or family being a bit odd, I do offer up 'no, just Irish' as an explanation. However, it would be when I think it's a cultural difference. (We are Irish).

When living further abroad, we would often say "oh! It's so x-ish!" (the equivalent for where we lived), no as a pejorative term, just as an acknowledgement of culture differences, and us not getting it.

Using 'Irish' as an actual synonym of 'stupid' would make me throw a paddy. Wink

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 13/08/2014 22:45

I haven't heard the word Irish used that way since the 70s/80s or Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman 'jokes' either. Hope you get it sorted OP.

LizLimone · 13/08/2014 22:47

No it's not just me. Most of the anti English feeling in my DH's hometown was driven by the large RAF presence, mostly English, who kept themselves to themselves, had their own schools with an A-level curriculum, kids all had English accents and of the few who did work in the local community e.g. as teachers at my DH's school, they spent a lot of their time looking down on the locals and telling them how superior the English educational system is. Also remember one time driving past an RAF base on one of the Western isles with big English flags flying everywhere. I thought was awful, a kick in the face to the local Gaelic-speaking community.

So there is ignorance on both sides of the Scottish / English thing in my experience. The failure to speak with a local accent is just odd to me, can't fathom it. My DC will be growing up in the the US and they'll have American accents I assume. All the kids I know who are growing up here with non-US parents still have American accents. My DS is pretty young so still sounds quite Irish but the more he goes to preschool the more I hear American from him. I would be very surprised if he managed to keep his Irish accent to an age where he's going to school.

Although it is not right for your DC's teacher to blame his literacy issues on his accent. That doesn't make any sense either.

NeverFinishWhatYouStarted · 13/08/2014 22:48

I'm Irish, living in Ireland, and 'round here we often say "that's a bit Irish" when faced with beaurocracy or a stupid policy or an obstructive jobsworth.

However, we're allowed say it, because we're Irish.

LizLimone · 13/08/2014 22:53

I mean Sally that if you ghettoize yourself into an ethnic community and emphasize your difference to the local norms, it often just deepens any existing prejudice. Maybe self-inflicted is a strong word but setting yourself apart, claiming to be Irish rather than Scottish, emphasizing your differences is never going to help people reach mutual understanding. Expressing pride / interest in your heritage - Irish, Polish, Indian, whatever - is a different thing. You can be proud of your individual family history and still identify with Scotland.

firstchoice · 13/08/2014 23:03

But, LIZ, I have lived more than half my life in Scotland.
I cannot claim to be Scottish born and bred but I am certainly a half and halfer, as far as I am concerned.
I have settled here and do not 'ghettoize' myself in any way (what an ugly phrase with ugly connotations!)
But, no, I am, and always will be, a 'white settler', a blow in, an outsider.
It is partly where I live in Scotland - it is a pretty rural and isolated place and very insular - each village loathes each neighbouring village - I have never known anywhere quite like it.

But that doesn't excuse my child being told to: 'Fuck off back to where you came from you wee English Cunt' at his young age, even if he spoke like Little Lord Fauntleroy and was proud of it. He doesn't btw and he is ashamed of his English accent (probably due to the charming values he is imbibing at his school...)

No one is responsible for the prejudice they receive, that is just victim blaming.

corkgirlindublin · 13/08/2014 23:06

It's very offensive. If I heard it in the workplace I'd lodge a complaint.

Smiling to myself at the poster who knows a husband and wife who both have PhDs as if that proves the Irish aren't that thick. Would a French couple with PhDs be considered exceptional Grin Us Irish must not be so thick after all.Wink

SallyMcgally · 13/08/2014 23:11

Not sure I see why anyone has to identify with Scotland? Can't they just live and let live without giving out or receiving any grief?

latika · 13/08/2014 23:21

Irish person living in the north east of England and have heard this many a time too!

Flipflops7 · 13/08/2014 23:21

Quite, corkgirl!

As second-generation invisible London Irish I was delightfully well placed to enjoy this kind of racism up until the 1990s. I am horrified to think it's still prevalent in Scotland and can only attribute it to sectarianism.

I've always jumped on this comment in England. One that still gets me is the widespread use of "beyond the pale" which makes me wince - I can't believe they haven't heard of Cromwell.

Often people who say these things are educated people who wouldn't dream of insulting black and Asian people so it's odd that neighbours (the Welsh come in for this negative treatment too) are not shown the same courtesy.

nocabbageinmyeye · 13/08/2014 23:22

I'm Irish, it's a saying you hear alot - by Irish in Ireland, to me it doesn't mean stupid it means cheeky/chancing your arm, if someone is taking advantage people would often say "that's a bit Irish", just one of those sayings, never put much thought into it, not sure how I'd feel if I heard it outside of here, if used in the chancing your arm context I think I'd be ok with it, stupid is different I suppose

backwardpossom · 13/08/2014 23:26

It's not prevalent in Scotland, though. Scotland is a large place. I live in the north east. I haven't heard anyone say anything like this since the 80s and I find it offensive that all Scots are being tarred with the same brush.