to be sick of all the "tell someone" nonsense following RW's death?

[cailindana]

My fb feed is full of trite messages saying "if you're suffering, talk to someone, we care, we will look after you blah blah blah." Bullshit. When I was severely depressed I did tell people - my GP, my parents, my sisters, my friends everyone. For the most part I got indifference, annoyance, "what can I do?" "get over it" "you're worrying mum," etc. It was only because DH is a bloody saint who spent hours and hours with me that I didn't kill myself. If he hadn't been there then I wouldn't be still alive.
I'm sure if I had killed myself, my family would have done the whole "I don't know why she did it, we had no idea," fuckwittery when in fact they would be perfectly aware of why I'd done it, they just wouldn't think it was a good reason and they would blame me for being cowardly.
Equally everyone else I know who is/was severely depressed is pretty open about it, in fact, I find that depressed people mention their condition quite a lot. The response is generally fear, a sense of not knowing what to say or how to respond, indifference or even disgust.

IME people who are in the depths of depression don't tell others because they have already told them in the past and got nowhere. Implying that if you are in that state all you need to do is "reach out" and someone will be there and everything will get better it totally inaccurate, very few people I know have had that experience. Even the very good kind close friends I had when I had PND last year essentially ignored the illness. They were helpful, very very helpful on a practical level (visiting, sorting out the kids etc) but they never asked me how I was or how the medication was working, I always had to bring it up and then they would just nod and mutter something encouraging. I don't blame them at all for that and I am extremely grateful for the ways in which they did help. It was actually on MN that I got the best support. Here, I met people who had gone through the same thing, who acknowledged my awful thoughts and feelings without trying to change my mind (the whole, "Oh it's not that bad!" that only makes depression sufferers feel they must be mental if no one else can see what they see) and gave me reassurance that yes it was shit but it would pass. They were here whenever I needed them, unlike RL friends who are understandably busy with their own lives.

Depression is a complex illness that requires specialist help. Talking does help, definitely, but a depressed person can't save or cure themselves by just being more open and talking more. Having someone listen is a welcome temporary relief but it doesn't treat the illness any more than talking to a cancer patient would treat their illness.

I totally agree with you.

We had a family friend who killed himself because his family took him out of mental hospital as they were totally embarrassed that he was in there.

They wrote him off and he knew it, so suicide was his only option.

Their words after he died? "We lost X a long time ago". He obviously didn't fit the bill anymore so they were probably glad when he was gone.

He was a lovely man who devoted his work life to helping others, yet when he needed help, nothing was done

People are utter shits when it comes to understanding mental illness.

Bloody hell Latika

Unfortunately that doesn't surprise me in the slightest hidden. When people say "no one cares if I live or die" unfortunately sometimes that's true - the people in their life that they care about have turned their backs on them. My family just saw me as an inconvenience when I was ill. Like I said, if DH hadn't been there I would have committed suicide and my parents would have pretended to be shocked but I think they would secretly have been relieved. Needless to say I don't talk to them much any more.

I think that's a really useful, articulate and well-written post, OP. YANBU.

I agree with you op. Maybe the posts should be telling people to LISTEN!

I am open about my anxiety but now less so. Talking to people has got me a range of responses from its sooo hard being a mum isnt it (no, being a mum is the best thing that ever happened to me and the only reason im still here). To - pull yourself together (really?) The worst part is people not trusting me with their children. I spend a good proportion of my day worrying about dying, about my children, about what if this that or the other. I take medication to help me with this. This medication does not render me insensible and if I forget to take it I will probably get a bit light headed and not sleep at night. I will not suddenly become a homicidal maniac and murder your children. Its been quite comical at times offering to pick up children from school for other mums and them backtracking and blustering. I called one woman on it once. She just said "oh its not that....its just, oh, dont be silly ive just remembered that so and so can do it" the irony being I have more patience with my dd than many of those superficial head tilting idiots.

The only time someone helped me, really helped, was my GP - she phoned me (after I'd called nhs 24 threatening all sorts ) in a panic, said she didn't know whether to laugh, shout at me or cry. She then said she would murder me first before I could and that she wouldn't go gently. I was so shocked, that I ended up laughing and so did she - at that time I hadn't smiled for a very long time and I didn't think I could. She kept me on the phone for a good half hour just talking about rubbish until I was calmer.

She helped me immensely because she wasn't sentimental or weird about it if you see what I mean.

But reading a message like Jason manfords yesterday wouldn't have helped at all - it's patronising and laughable almost.

I did post a link to MIND yesterday,because I felt I had to do something...if my Mum had told me how she was feeling instead of trying to 'protect' me (I'm 44!) she maybe wouldn't be in hospital after her 4th suicide attempt in 6 months..

Mental illness is still largely ignored, and if one person seeks help because of a fb post, it's worth it..however I have also seen the same post from people who normally don't give a thought to other people, so YANBU in that respect

I'm on the fence with this one.

My lovely BIL hanged himself last April. He had no MH issues, he had no history of depression, he thought he was really ill and was going to die anyway. He didn't tell a soul he thought he was ill and so now we torture ourselves with questions like why didn't he talk to us, why did he keep it a secret . I look at photos we took of him 2 weeks before he took his life when we went ut for my bday and he looks fine, like he didn't have a care in the world. I believe in his case that if he had talked then we could have managed to get some rationality into him.....he wasn't ill - what he thought was cancer was actually a fungal infection. How blood tragic is that....42 years old, such a waste.

However, I totally understand that when someone is actually depressed then talking will not solve the issue.

It's a complex matter and very very sad.

It's such a sad situation for anyone who's lost a loved one in similar circumstances. I saw three little boys left behind without a daddy that they adored. He loved them beyond belief too and comments like 'if he really loved his family he wouldn't have done it' are hurtful and incredibly damaging to those left behind. Even though I've been affected by this I still feel incredibly ignorant - I don't have the knowledge or skills to help someone who feels like this and that for me is the worst thing in all of this.

If someone has a physical illness we are all there with support and it's widely accepted, if a family member has cancer everyone is there to talk about it and support. For some reason mental health is different even though they are suffering just as much.

A friend of mine posted a link saying "After the sad death of Robin Williams, why not put a call through today to someone you know going through tough times." This is the same friend who knew I had PND but didn't call me once. He contacted me when he wanted a favour (which I did, despite being unwell and having two children to look after) but still hasn't once asked me how I am.
Fucking hypocrite.

I know people with depression have felt supported on MN but I don't think MN is very supportive of men with depression. Men do tend to present differently to women. They are more likely to show anger as a symptom, less likely to ask for help and 4 times as likely to successfully commit suicide as a women. Yet if a poster goes on the relationship board and asks for help she is told she should leave him as he is not stressed or depressed just abusive and not get help for him as "he needs to do it himself"

My dh has suffered depression most of our married life and has got to the point where I have had to intervene and take him to the doctors and speak for him and it has made the difference to how the gp treats him. Thankfully there are is a very lovely gp at our surgery who will take him seriously but he came out of one appointment with the feeling that she thought he was skiving and wanting a week off

YANBU. I told a friend when I had depression, and she said, "I don't really believe in depression."

Oh, ok. Thanks for your help.

I completely agree with you OP.

The best article was in todays Guardian addressing the 'selfish' comments and I did post that, mainly because a good friend of mine immolated themselves last year and if their family and friends do not think this person was selfish, then how dare complete fucking strangers decide it was?

. A bit of grief and anger there.

Here it is.

I am glad to see depression and MI all over the press and social media. It is so much better than the alternative, even if a lot of the coverage is well meaning but immature or misinformed. We are all, at least, having a conversation about it and if one person becomes more enlightened....well that is one less idiot.

op i suffer from severe depression and it is something i keep to myself as i feel to ashamed to tell anyone,it took me months to go to the dr as i thought he would think i was wasting his time.
So it is something i would not tell anyone in fb about the only person in rl who knows is my dh

I totally agree with what Flatly(?) said up thread that the message should be 'Know someone depressed, let them talk'.

I have struggled with anxiety and had severe PND after my second child. I still get anxiety day to day but now I find if I can voice why I'm anxious to DP then he can make me realise that it's just anxiety and that I can let it go. If I didn't have him to sound off to then I'd just have the whirly head all the time.

When I had PND, no one listened really. It was as though it was an inconvenience which made me feel all the more paranoid. Luckily it eventually passed (with the help of meds)and I'm much better now. It's always at the back of my head though and that's scary because I know that people will have the 'not again' attitude.

bruffin, that worries me too. It's great that MN is very, very supportive towards women, and not taking patriarchal shit.

But some of the posts on relationships leave my jaw hanging open. It's not everyone, by a long shot, but some posters seem to have a line of "women are rarely abusive, only depressed; men are rarely depressed, only abusive."

I have read this thread. Very slowly and thoroughly and with a lot of thought. And as someone who doesn't suffer from depression, the one message this thread (and to be fair, others like it) gives to me, is: I am better saying nothing than saying something I think might be helpful and supportive as chances are what I do say might be viewed as patronising or unhelpful or hurtful.

I bet Jason Manford feels like that today too. He would have been better keeping his mouth shut (or fingers off his keyboard) because although I do believe his words were heartfelt, so many people find them patronising and laughable. But if everyone keeps their mouths shut for fear of saying the wrong thing (and honestly, reading this post that is exactly how it makes me feel) then depression and MH issues in general, go back into the dark dusty cupboard they are only just slowly escaping.

I agree OP. Also agree with POs about "competitive compassioning"; I've actually stayed off social media today. It is a difficult subject for me, and I'm seeing a few people making this tragedy all about them.

One problem with depression and the many other mental illnesses is that very often the sufferer cannot realise that they are ill: it takes someone else to see something wrong. You can't just "talk about it" if you think the rest of the world has gone mad, not you.

Bruffin

I agree. Men present differently- the coverage around David Ruffley has been very ignorant about how depression and mental illness can make people behave VERY out of character- I have nursed people who have been hugely violent when unwell to everybody around them but when well they are NOT aggressive, not DVers- it is a symptom not a character flaw, a reaction to perceived threat and circumstances. They recover and are horrified at how their illness manifested themselves but at the time of the worst symptoms (which can include physical and verbal abuse), they are not well. I hasten to add that most people with MI are NOT aggressive though, before somebody comes along and accuses me of perpetuating that myth.

Young men are higher risk. Depression is increasing rapidly in older people. I was [shocked] that Russell Brand claimed to be in ignorance of this as he spends so much time with Chip Somers I'd have thought he'd have been better educated on some of the topics he bangs on about.

Having worked in older persons mental health, I know that older people can deteriorate very fast and also be very assertive in their decision making- when they decide that suicide is their option, they won't hang about so you have to act swiftly.

I have explained it to service users thus-

'The iller you are, the less ill you may feel'. Particularly relevant to psychosis and depression with psychotic features.

SlowRedCar, how about "How are you?" as something to say to someone depressed.

And then give them space to talk if they want to, and don't press it if they don't. But keep being there as a friend.

Depression and mental health issues alienate people from friends and family. When I was going through relentless depression and was hospitalised, it made people extremely uncomfortable. Very few people stuck by me when I was really ill. They didn't know what to say, felt awkward or told me I needed to pull myself together. I think going through a massive depressive episode shows you who your true friends are.

Resources are so hit and miss too. Even when hospitalised, other than checking I hadn't killed myself every fifteen minutes, there was precious little else in the way of help. I found the experience terrifying. I was suicidally depressed and put on a ward with a whole mix of people - some were on drugs, some psychotic, others yelled at me. There was no-one to talk to. I spent the time there trying to be invisible and crying endlessly.

Even with all the money and support in the world, Robin Williams was still killed by this horrible disease. OP - YANBU - trite messages aren't going to solve the problem.

SlowRedCar - that is absolutely not the message I am giving (I can't speak for anyone else). I already said, twice, that it didn't bother me that my friends didn't know what to say, I just appreciated their invaluable practical help and support. In terms of saying the wrong thing, I was referring to the things my family said - "Get over it," "you're worrying mum," "what do you have to be depressed about," etc. I'm sure you wouldn't say those things as they are just plain nasty.

What I am objecting to is the message that depressed people "simply" need to speak to someone in order to get better. That is just not true.

If you're interested though, I would say that if a friend does tell you they're depressed the best response would be something along the lines of "would you like to talk about how you're feeling?" or "is there something practical I can do to help?" or if they're very bad "I will go with you to the GP, can I make the appointment for you?"

If anyone else has "things to say to a depressed person" to add then that would be useful.

Equally everyone else I know who is/was severely depressed is pretty open about it, in fact, I find that depressed people mention their condition quite a lot

This is not my experience at all. I think it's far more typical for depressed people to mask their illness. This is one of the most exhausting aspects of it. Trying to put on a normal 'performance' to the world.

I also don't think there's much family and acquaintances can really do to help. The only people that can actually help are psychiatrists and medication.

People can say 'there there' but they can't cure or often even understand the illness. I don't think it's fair to be angry with them for that.

Depression is a very cruel illness in so many ways. Very isolating, that's the nature of it.

Scarlet, I'm not angry with anyone for not understanding the illness.

I am definitely angry with my family for basically treating me like shit.

What I am saying is, don't post trite shit on fb about something you don't understand. It's fine to say "I don't understand depression, but if you'd like to talk to me about I'll listen."

Saying to depressed people "help is out there, just talk about it," is just bullshit that most depressed people know isn't true.