to be sick of all the "tell someone" nonsense following RW's death?

[cailindana]

My fb feed is full of trite messages saying "if you're suffering, talk to someone, we care, we will look after you blah blah blah." Bullshit. When I was severely depressed I did tell people - my GP, my parents, my sisters, my friends everyone. For the most part I got indifference, annoyance, "what can I do?" "get over it" "you're worrying mum," etc. It was only because DH is a bloody saint who spent hours and hours with me that I didn't kill myself. If he hadn't been there then I wouldn't be still alive.
I'm sure if I had killed myself, my family would have done the whole "I don't know why she did it, we had no idea," fuckwittery when in fact they would be perfectly aware of why I'd done it, they just wouldn't think it was a good reason and they would blame me for being cowardly.
Equally everyone else I know who is/was severely depressed is pretty open about it, in fact, I find that depressed people mention their condition quite a lot. The response is generally fear, a sense of not knowing what to say or how to respond, indifference or even disgust.

IME people who are in the depths of depression don't tell others because they have already told them in the past and got nowhere. Implying that if you are in that state all you need to do is "reach out" and someone will be there and everything will get better it totally inaccurate, very few people I know have had that experience. Even the very good kind close friends I had when I had PND last year essentially ignored the illness. They were helpful, very very helpful on a practical level (visiting, sorting out the kids etc) but they never asked me how I was or how the medication was working, I always had to bring it up and then they would just nod and mutter something encouraging. I don't blame them at all for that and I am extremely grateful for the ways in which they did help. It was actually on MN that I got the best support. Here, I met people who had gone through the same thing, who acknowledged my awful thoughts and feelings without trying to change my mind (the whole, "Oh it's not that bad!" that only makes depression sufferers feel they must be mental if no one else can see what they see) and gave me reassurance that yes it was shit but it would pass. They were here whenever I needed them, unlike RL friends who are understandably busy with their own lives.

Depression is a complex illness that requires specialist help. Talking does help, definitely, but a depressed person can't save or cure themselves by just being more open and talking more. Having someone listen is a welcome temporary relief but it doesn't treat the illness any more than talking to a cancer patient would treat their illness.

I think people need to feel less helpless in the wake of a death. If it helps even a tiny bit to remove some of the stigma around mental health, so much the better.

I posted a link to MIND suggesting everyone touched by Robin Williams's death might consider donating £1 to help other people with depression. My DH is bipolar so it's a subject close to my heart. It's had a couple of dozen shares, some friends have said they've donated.

YANBU though. My DH's CPN seems unable to come up with anything more meaningful than "have you considered taking up a hobby?". He's been on a cocktail of drugs for treatment-resistant bipolar II for 25 years and worked full-time for the first 15 of those. I doubt if taking up fucking golf is going to help much.

That is so sad Durham. In your FIL's case it sounds like his depression was so severe he just couldn't be helped. It happens with mental illness in the same way as it happens with other illnesses, like cancer, sometimes it gets to a point that the person cannot be saved. If a person dies by suicide it seems like it's a preventable death, but if that person is absolutely determined to die then any help is simply holding off the inevitable. It's sad and horrible but it happens.
What I would say is that I hope that in the future just as we will have better treatments for cancer and other illnesses, we will have better treatments for depression and other mental illnesses. The treatments at the moment are terrible - ADs are very hit and miss, very slow acting and often have terrible side effects. Talking treatments have some effect but not on everyone. ECT is still used and can be effective. But overall treatments are very poor. Research and investment is needed to improve them.

I get what you mean cailin, and I've had similar responses - one GP told me "I just have a pen and a prescription pad, I don't really see what you expect me to do about it" when I told her I'd come within a hair's breadth of ending it that morning. . Being told to go for a walk - oh dear...

One very positive thing that I have seen a lot over the last day is the consistent message that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is NOT HELPFUL. Whenever something has really pulled the rug out from under me - whether bereavement, miscarriage or PTSD - some well-meaning but clueless person has come out with this. This may - may - be true in the long run, but I found I just wanted to say "well, it will kill me then" at the time.

Have my experiences made me stronger? I have no idea - I haven't experienced anything different. Some days you just drag the bits of yourself from place to place, sometimes it's a good day and everything sort of works, and after a while the good days outnumber the bad. I wouldn't say that makes me 'stronger' necessarily.

As for dancing in the fecking rain...

I've been depressed on and off over the years ,I haven't really told anyone as I know the first thing I'll get is "what have you got to be depressed about ?". My partner knows but he's so laid back he's horizontal !! So whenever I say I'm feeling a little anxious about a certain situation ,or that I'm feeling down I get the usual "you think too much " blah blah blah.
Robin Williams ,I think ,will show to people that there's not always a reason why someone's depressed ,and that also it's not an illness that shows as easily as some. For instance ,I've realised over the years that as much as I've been depressed ,resulting in the usual anxiety ,ruminating ,worry etc...only my partner sees this. Everyone else that I speak to always compliment me on how chilled I am. I'm like what ?! I don't feel that way in my mind ,but obviously hide it well !!

I agree with you.

I'm finding the posts hard to take - its just a simplistic and trite response IMO. However, it's a bit raw for me as my MIL hung herself a few weeks ago.

I found the intrusive questions and comments from her friends bad enough, I cannot imagine how his family feel with strangers passing comment.

I totally agree with your OP.

I understand what you mean OP - I think the majority of people don't understand depression or feel awkward and don't know what to say.

But I do think social media has a role to play here in changing attitudes and reducing that stigma.

I agree OP. It is tripe. It is competitive "compassioning". As ugly and shallow as competitive grieving.

If it was just a simple case of telling someone then people wouldn't be suffering like they are. I don't like some of the message being given, it's like suicide victims are being blamed because they didn't speak to anyone. As a society we need to understand mental illness much more and support people better.

YANBU. I see a lot of, 'Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.' Really? RW was ill for his entire adult life, he had an incurable disease, not exactly a temporary problem.

The only time someone if

I can see your point but I think it's important to remember that people aren't born automatically able to know the perfect thing to say to someone who is depressed. In a lot of cases people really want to help and do their best to (for example by providing practical support like in an earlier post) and it seems unfair to criticise them for not saying the right thing.

Even with a lot of help many people will never completely overcome the pain and darkness. That's just the way depression works for a lot of people. Talking might bring a temporary relief, but it isn't going to permanently fix things.

I feel strongly that when an individual has had enough and depleted every last bit of resources they should be remembered with compassion, not vilified for being 'selfish'.

Agree completely Op.

I found it hard when I'd opened up and i felt that some people actually stuck their noses in. My mum decided that the way forward was research. She printed off about a quarter of a ream of articles for me to read. I'm sure she felt that she was being helpful, but I didn't need to read about how I felt - I was experiencing it first hand.

I also couldn't bear "helpful suggestions" - go for a walk, eat this, do that. I just wanted to be left alone, but I think I wanted people to understand why I wanted to be left alone. I didn't want cuddles or hand holding - just understanding.

It's only recently that it has begun to dawn on people why I am the way I am. Why I use humour to get me through. Why I appear to be extroverted when I'm dying inside. My mum is hugely introverted to the point of appearing to be rude to people she doesn't know, and I've been criticised for "embarrassing" her - only now is she beginning to realise that it's a coping mechanism.

Bluetonic, I'm not criticising anyone for not knowing the right thing to say. I already said my friends were a great help, despite the fact that they didn't know what to say. My family were a whole other story, but they're self centred gits anyway.
My point is, I wouldn't go on fb and say "If you're suffering from cancer, drink green tea, it'll really help." Now, drinking green tea might help some people but to say all cancer sufferers will benefit from drinking green tea is just nonsense and shows a lack of understanding of how cancer works.
It's a similar thing with depression.
Talking to someone is not the be all and end all solution for depression. It might help, or it might be awful (as it was for me when my family basically told me to shut up). What will help depressed people is proper professional help that is well trained and well resourced, and that's what's lacking at the moment.

Yes, if the message were "Got a friend who's depressed? Let them talk", that would be one thing.

But addressing it to the depressed person - especially when no one's listened to them - can verge on blaming.

Even the MIND logo at the moment is "it's ok to ask for help." That's not a bad message, but what if the help just isn't there? There seems to be this idea that every depressed person has a bottomless reservoir of help available to them if only they'll just open up and ask for it. That is absolutely not the case for the majority of people I know. My friend who attempted suicide just got shouted at by her family and they brought it up every time they saw her in order to make her feel bad about it. There was no concern at all for her. None.

What it can do is alert people at the start of the slide down the slippery slope before the symptoms become intractable or harder to treat.

Fact is those posts are aimed at people who maybe don't understand. I would rather this than a conspiracy of silence, speaking as a MHP.

Yes I get that simply talking about it is, well, simplistic and won't cure per se but once upon a time nobody talked about cancer. They didn't call it by its name and people were shut away at home. Same with Epilepsy. Talking about it at least begins the process of normalisation which is a long game in itself.

TBH the problem lies in poor resources, understaffing and inappropriate use of a narrow tranche of treatments predicated on short term gains when in fact gains by definition need to be predicated on the initially more costly medium to long term. That is what we need to start talking about VERY loudly to our MPs.

I see what you mean about the long game mignonette, and that is a very valid point.

The comment on fb that irritated me the most was 'if he had known he was this loved he would never have killed himself'. As someone who has lost two people I loved dearly to suicide I found it incredibly offensive. When someone is depressed, love cannot 'cure' them.

Oh that is so hurtful Latika.

It's ironic given that Robin Williams did tell people; he has just been in a clinic for treatment of his depression FFS!

Entirely agree that any social media campaign should focus on supporting depressed people rather than telling depressed people what to do.

Exactly latika - the idea that "love" and "support" can cure depression. Of course love and support help when you're dealing with any illness but they are not magic, they can't take away and illness.

an illness

I told my GP and she was wonderful. It was a long journey back but the first step was telling someone. Then I could tell other people, family and friends. I didn't have universal support from them but I did from the vast majority.

If I hadn't told someone it's very likely that I wouldn't be here now.

YABVU