To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

oh that stung so much, I might never get over it scarlett

no, wait, I seem to be fine.

Next?

Gosh those non-recliners are very angry folk!

Honestly I don't care if its 4 hours, 14 hours, day, night or part of a round the world epic.

The seats recline to try to allow a little more comfort. Its a feature of the heap of money you spent on the ticket. Possibly purchased from an airline because of its seat pitch.

Your long femurs, important project on the laptop, bad back, work the next day, don't give you any more entitlement than anyone else.

Airline travel is unpleasant, stop expecting people to adhere to your rules and requirements as if your personal journey is more important.

Yes, lets be courteous and respectful, raise the seat back if you're awake for meals, don't kick and pull the chair but the recline facility is there to be used.

"Gosh those non-recliners are very angry folk!"

They’re getting angry personofinterest because they don’t have anything more than pouty huffing and puffing of “I feel entitled to more space and you’re rude to recline and deny me my entitled-ness” on their side.

All the logical arguments (airline policies, pre-booking of seats, upgrading to biz, getting partner with normal length of femurs to sit in front instead of beside, choosing airlines based on those who give more space, fly Ryanair Easyjet or Monarch, paying so baby has a seat and doesn’t have to be on your lap the whole flight, day time flights mean different things depending on total journey time, petition airlines to ban recline etc etc) are all on the other side of the argument and that just riles them because they are simply not going to get what they want (feel entitled to) any time soon.

All they really can do is moan and get angry in here and give passive aggressive kicks to seat-backs on-board while they seethe and fume in frustration, that sadly, this time, it isn't all about them.

Poor loves, lol.

Well done OP for taking all the comments on the chin gracefully!

The only thing I have to add about a 5yo sleeping better on a reclined airline seat is that have you ever seen a 5yo asleep in a car seat??? They can sleep for hours practically folded in half!! It doesn't cross your mind that they need to be reclined in irder to sleep better! Haha

I think all under 18's (and large groups such says stags and hens) should be anaesthetised on entering the plane and not woken until the rest of us have picked up our luggage the other end!

No you aren't or rather weren't B.U. If the seat is made to recline then it is made to reclie so why should you have unreclined it. Also you did pay for the seat!

Flipflops, surely you can understand the point I was trying to make.

To me, 10 hours is medium haul. Although the airlines may refer to it as long haul, clearly, in the grand scheme of things, and the distances many fliers cover, it is fairly medium.

The point I was making was that even if you feel so disinclined to recline on a 10-hour flight, I will avail of the feature when I'm flying for 36 hours.

I was stuck in one position under my sick DD for 2 hours on a nice, comfy sofa yesterday afternoon, and my back was really starting to twinge.

For some reason, you expect me to remain upright over the 3 legs and 36 hours of flying, simply because you can remain comfortable for a 10 hour flight. And I'm the unreasonable one...

Actually no, JapaneseMargaret, that's not at all what I have said, nor what I think.

Upthread, I exempted long-haul flights from the entire discussion, as far as I was concerned.

Upthread, I said (twice) that the Independent Traveller guidelines were very reasonable - read them, you will probably agree.

Some recliners seem to want to conflate everyone's anti- comments and attribute them all to one poster - at the moment that seems to be me.

I don't expect you to do anything over 36 hours on planes. I neither know you, nor care what you do, nor what SlowRedCar does, nor expatinscotland.

My personal take on a single 10-hour flight is that FOR ME it is at the top end of medium haul. That is my opinion based on my tolerance. I recognise that others are physically weaker than I am and can't sit upright easily for 10 hours. They should of course recline in keeping with the reasonable guidelines.

My only thoughts on the original OP were that her daughter was already asleep on a shortish flight so there was no need to inconvenience the other passenger, in other words I agreed with OP's DH. OP has been back herself a few times in a good-natured and open-minded fashion.

I can't believe I got deleted Flipflops, all I did was peruse whether something could be classified as a job or not

I'm a non recliner, and I am not in the least bit angry! #justsaying

I do that if I can, too, Scarlett! But sometimes when I'm travelling for work I only have my posh leather Radley workbag and I don't want to put my feet on that. It's a huge issue :(

Why do you say the OP was on a short-ish flight?

In the OP, she says 'long haul, 2 flights, 4-hour stop-over'. No sleep on the first leg, and her DD finally falls asleep on the second leg.

The OP was trying to ensure that the sleep that was finally taking place, continued to take place.

This is exactly the sort of situation (multiple legs, stop-overs), where passengers should feel able to eke out what litle extra comfort they can. And those who expect them not to, are the unreasonable ones.

Me neither Scarlett . I have no clue where all that's coming from.

Oh, apologies JM, I didn't read the 4 hours properly this time.

I still maintain a sleeping child is fine as she is, probably even more so for it being a very long journey, she was probably shattered.

In theory I agree, but when you're travelling with young children; multiple legs, stop-over, etc, and it's your child, it can feel a bit different.

And so I maintain that it is reasonable to do what you can to ensure sleep, not least for other passengers' comfort as well.

Carmine, we must petition the airline companies post haste to introduce foot rests! I have this problem on most seats to be honest, even on the loo my feet swing

For what it's worth, Slow, I think you're being extremely unpleasant. If you think you've "won", why not act with good grace and withdraw to enjoy your triumph. Your gloating leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Of course, if you pay for a reclining seat, you are entitled to recline. That will impinge on other's comfort... But you are entitled. It's your choice.

Surely that's really all you need to say? All your facts and figures aren't going to convince anyone doesn't like to recline or to be reclined on. So why are you still going on?

Um yes some recliners seem very odd. Bit snarly and very aggressive. But as 'rights asserters' I am not entirely surprised, more saddened. Not sure where the peace-loving non-recliners have been anything but rational and dare I say it, intelligent-sounding ... Just sayin'.

Happy non-recliner here. Just off my fourth long-haul in 11 days.... Woman in front did recline for about an hour. Not during food or drinks. I considerately (yes, i am!) did not recline into the long-legged man behind me.

The woman in front also put the arm rest up between her and the man next to her. Bit strange. She was overweight and I assume it made her more comfortable. Not sure what he made of it though. No argument ensued. Peace and love and non-reclining!

Yes, I'm saddened by the seething, angsty mass of humanity that are the non-recliners.

All that passive aggressive seat-kicking and headrest-yanking. Clearly some major anger issues at play.

If they are 'rational' and 'intelligent-sounding' ... what hope for the rest of us?!

I AM A RECLINER AND I AM COMFORTABLE PROUD.

Upthread, I exempted long-haul flights from the entire discussion, as far as I was concerned

you also said daytime flyers shouldn’t recline, you also said people who want to recline should take multiple short hauls instead of one long haul.

Some recliners seem to want to conflate everyone's anti- comments and attribute them all to one poster - at the moment that seems to be me.

LOL, get over yourself. Really, you will give yourself a nosebleed. I see no one on this thread disagreeing with only you.

If you think you've "won", why not act with good grace and withdraw to enjoy your triumph. Your gloating leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

it’s not I think I have won. It’s just you have no arguments on your side. The rude and entitled card can and has been used by both sides, everything else is on the side of the people who recline where and when it is allowed. I’m sorry you and the non-recliners have nothing to back your arguments on, but I can’t do much about that. Why should I withdraw? To leave the floor to the non-recliners? To make it easier for them because they have no valid arguments? To make tea?

All your facts and figures aren't going to convince anyone doesn't like to recline or to be reclined on. So why are you still going on?

I guess my answer to why I am still here would be the same answer as why you and all the other anti-recliners are still are here.

some recliners seem very odd. Bit snarly and very aggressive

you missed the posts about kicking seat-backs, and shoving head rests, hassling cabin crew, all from peace-loving anti-recliners?

some anti-recliners seem very odd too, very snarly and aggressive.

Dear SlowRedCar,

I am not CarmineRose78. She has expressed her own thoughts to you.

My (earlier) comments were to JapaneseMargaret/the board.

You don't appear to be looking at individual comments or discerning different opinions, or shades of opinion.

FWIW I happen to agree with Carmine that you sound unpleasant. I don't agree with her that you have 'won', however, as I don't think this is a competition.

Sincerely,

FlipFlops

Dear Flipflops7,

I really don’t give two hoots what you think.

I only find it funny that you have trouble ignoring me like you keep promising to do.

Sincerely,

Slow.

flipflops Don't worry, I got your point about harassing individual non-recliners. That did happen and I should know. .

The most amusing fact is that non-recliners are causing no harm. In fact they are making another human being's life less stressful. The mere fact of judging recliners in certain situations seems to elicit anger and aggression from the 'it's my right' brigade. You have to laugh really.

Peace. And love. And non-reclining.

I am interested to hear the views on the woman in front of me who raised the arm rest. (Man beside her did not react. He was awake). I would never dream of doing that. I guess she lucked out with a very kind and considerate seat-mate.

The most amusing fact is that non-recliners are causing no harm

no of course they're not. Kicking someone's seatback, knocking their headrest, verbally hassling crew and passengers is harmless behaviour

to passive aggressive people.