To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

So Slowcar What is you preferred airline?

I once had a seat on a fully booked plane that didn't exist. There was nowhere for me to sit. They gave me a crew seat facing backwards . It didn't recline but had LOADS of leg room.

Patronising and not true. My last two flights were over 10 hours and I did not feel a need to recline.

To me, 10 hours is medium haul, so I stand by the comment.

Due to where we we live now, where we used to live, and where DH is from (the other side of the world), our usual flight combo is, as I said upthread, around 36-odd hours, and 3 flight legs.

Anyone expecting me not to avail of the reclining facility that has kindly been provided to me on the chair I have paid for, is being deeply unreasonable.

YANBU.

Slowcar What is you preferred airline?

Singapore, Cathay Pacific & Emirates. (no particular order)

and it's not just me, these 3 are almost always up there in top 3-6 of the world airline awards (chosen by passengers)

Qatar also score consistently very good.

airlines like BA for instance never do well in these lists (I think they were 19th this year and about 30th the year before). European and American airlines in general never (iirc) never do well according to passengers who vote.

I'm with you SlowRedCar and those are my three favourite airlines and I will always use one of them when flying to the FE or Australia. I would sooner row across the Atlantic than fly BA, though I don't mind them for a short haul hop to Spain/Italy, and will usually choose them over EasyJet/Ryan, as there's only usually a few quid in it.

The seats include a recline facility. As do all but a handful at the back and even they have limited recline. Don't like recline? Don't use, complain to the airline. Don't expect anyone else to observe your personal made up and bizarre recline etiquette.

agree with all that personofinterest, glad you highlighted that the seats at the back have limited recline, that is my experience too. I have also laughed like hell at some of the reasons people give to demand their neighbour remain upright. Especially when I travel with some really big tall guys whose only issue with recliners in front is, they can't type properly on their laptop when the person in front of them is reclined. BooHoo colleagues, use your phone or ipad then, it's a flight, not an airborne work station.

so true skina, those 3 are not in the top year in and year out cos they're bad

BA (and euro & N. American airlines in general) aren't consistently way down the bottom end of the list because they are good.

Shorthaul I choose whoever is cheapest (including luggage, lol) and am happy if they at least have complimentary toilet paper on those flights. Sticking with someone like BA for short haul isn't a bad idea as at least you can still accrue frequent flyer points.

Seats recline, so I fully accept people have a right to recline. Personally, I wish they didn't. I don't mind the seat being upright, and I feel claustrophobic with the seat behind reclined. There is so little distance between your face, and the seat in front.

I usually do long haul flights of 18 plus hours. On short haul flights to Europe, I really don't care.

It's not essential to recline, it's just a preference.

Battleaxe, it's not essential to fly either, it's just a preference too.

If the airlines own policies aren't to your liking, you aren't going to die not using them.

We all agree to the terms and conditions of carriage when we buy a ticket.

Hahaha at complimentary loo roll! Yep, that is exactly why I use BA on short hops, s'all about the points with them. I've almost got enough to fly me and my family to Spain or Italy next year (6 of us), so the £££ saved there will bump us up to a rather nice villa, instead of an ordinary one. Comfort, obvs

JapaneseMargaret, I don't think 10 hours is long haul either.

But when I said that, waaay up thread, the reclining sisterhood was all over me; in fact SlowRedCar said I was talking shite, after leaping to support expat's tale of family woe.

So can all the recliners now agree with you, and each other, that 10 hours on its own is NOT long haul? That the only reason people took issue was because a non-recliner said it?

If so I will finally be able to quit this thread, having concluded a couple of days ago that the Independent Traveller guidelines on reclining (linked in this thread) were entirely reasonable.

I flew business class back from West Africa years ago, and the man in front of me reclined his seat fully when I was trying to eat my meal. The tray was jammed against me, and in the wrong place, and I was almost leaning over his face. The cabin crew asked him to put it up for the duration of the meal. He refused loudly. He soon put it up when we hit some turbulence and he got a face full of lettuce and red wine.

I've no problem with people reclining their seat once the food is over, but personally, I don't think the six inches makes much difference to whether you can sleep or not.

I am proud to be a member of the reclining sisterhood. I am going to put that on my CV.

JapaneseMargaret, I don't think 10 hours is long haul either.

But when I said that, waaay up thread, the reclining sisterhood was all over me; in fact SlowRedCar said I was talking shite, after leaping to support expat's tale of family woe.

So can all the recliners now agree with you, and each other, that 10 hours on its own is NOT long haul? That the only reason people took issue was because a non-recliner said it?

If so I will finally be able to quit this thread, having concluded a couple of days ago that the Independent Traveller guidelines on reclining (linked in this thread) were entirely reasonable.

I don't think Japanese Margaret was saying 10 hrs wasn't longhaul. I think what she was saying is that for her she travels regularly 36 hrs, 10 hours is for her is nothing. But it doesn't matter what you, or me, or Margaret think anyway, it's what the airlines think. If they say a 10 hour flight is long haul, which every airline I know does, then it is long haul. So sorry, you are still talking shite. Find me the airlines that don't class 10 hrs as long haul and I will apologise to you.

(unreservedly, since you have obviously taken it real bad, lol).

20 years ago there were FAR more independent travelers type articles around to ban smoking on flights. That still didn't mean non-smokers had the right to demand fellow passengers stub out their cigarettes as we knew the T's & C's of carriage when we booked. It took passengers like me petitioning the airlines to do that and get smoking banned in planes. Your time (and all the other non-recliners) would be far better spent doing that than hassling passengers for just doing what they have paid to do, and do within the airlines own rules. That is, recline.

But do feel free to quit the thread anytime you like. You make it sound like you must post and are unable to quit.

Read some of this thread chucking with laughter.

Oh to be part of a world where I would have this as a worry!

Deary deary me!!

I know helensburgh, it's quite pathetic really. Sore knees are such a 1st world problem. Even if they even did ban reclining on long haul (which they won't) I would just not fly, or upgrade. Even with a disability and a blue badge to prove it why reclining is more than just a mere comfort preference, it would still be a 1st world problem I would have if I couldn't recline. And ever so ease to solve.

JapaneseMargaret said: "to me 10 hours is medium haul".
SlowRedCar said: "I don't think JM was saying 10 hours wasn't long haul".

So take it up with her. Recliners, please duke this one out among yourselves.

I kind of doubt whether you are capable of apologising to anyone, SRC, unreservedly or not, and incidentally you've also spent many hours longer on this thread than I have, trotting out seat stats which I've skipped over. It's possible to judge just by looking when one is inconveniencing someone else. A ruler isn't necessary.

I applaud your successful efforts to petition airlines to ban smoking. It was always stupid, smelly and dangerous on planes. I am a non-smoker as well and believe guidelines shouldn't be necessary when dealing with the bloody obvious. Though try telling a smoker at that time :) Reclining is different from smoking. In some instances it is very selfish, in others not at all. It isn't dangerous or antisocial in the same way as smoking.

Enjoy your flights; very glad I don't have to travel for work any more.

YY to footrests CarmineRose I have to put my bag down at my feet to put them on.

"Recliners, please duke this one out among yourselves."

what part of "it doesn't matter what any one individual thinks is long haul or medium haul, it's what the airlines think that matters" do you have trouble understanding?

If they say it is, then it is.

if you want to carry on calling 10hrs anything but long haul, knock yourself out, I'll keep saying you're talking shite

"you've also spent many hours longer on this thread than I have"

it wasn't me going "ok can we just agree on xyz so I can finally quit this thread", that was you. If you don't like it, quit. Don't try to get everyone else to stop posting to suit you. I see you act on forums like you do on flights. You want everyone to accommodate you.

there is entitled, and then there is ^ that.

So SRC, you're not capable of seeing when you've contradicted yourself, nor backing away from a thread in a spirit of friendliness, as I did.

And your parting shot is to project all your own failings onto me.

Probably best we don't discuss anything. If I comment further, assume I am neither speaking to you or about you. Good day.

sweet cheeks, I have found you pretty silly and totally inexperienced since the beginning, there is no contradiction in that. All your talk of day flights, that aren't day time for others who are on multi-leg trips. The fact you think business travelers should take 5 short haul instead of one long haul, is frankly, totally silly as it would economically cripple the global economy overnight.

but hey, I know you have no decent arguments to make so all you can do is accuse me of projecting. whatevva

Carry on, quit, do back flips. I don't care. Just don't tell others when to stop posting the way you tell others on flights not to recline.

What's your job, SlowRedCar?

flipflops, as you stated at 12.34pm "If I comment further, assume I am neither speaking to you or about you"

excuse me while I stop laughing

Since you're ignoring me, I'll assume that "what's your job" question was for someone else called slowredcar.