To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

It's your child, why should she be made uncomfortable by your child? You could put child between you and DH and let her spread herself over you.

I have travelled a lot, and I'm afraid I think yabu. Yes, of course it's ok to recline the seats but it's standard plane etiquette not to recline while people are eating their meals/waiting for the trays to be cleared. Your DH was right.

Long haul travel with young children is hard, but if you choose to make the journey, you just have to suck it up. It isn't fair to inconvenience other passengers.

I highly recommend the JAL premium economy seats if anyone ever has a chance to use them - very clever design means you can recline as much as you like without having any impact on the person behind you. :)

Unless you are told to do otherwise, you paid for a reclining seat! If she needed more room she should have bought first class. Besides, she should have reclined Her seat too to get more room. Fwiw I usually don't recline my seat until the person in front of me does, because it gives me more room.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all. And to kick your dd's seat was mean and childish.

Complaining woman did recline later, I noticed. But obviously in line with airline etiquette . As mentioned, I did not recline myself for 9 hours martyr to the cause and there were too many good movies to watch.

Having a seat reclined in front of you on an economy long haul flight does make it much more uncomfortable - nigh on impossible - to eat, it just does, even for the smallest of people. On all the long haul flights I've been on, it's been the standard thing not to recline during meal service, and I've seen a number of people being asked to straighten seats. So YABU I'm afraid, especially as it seems to have made no difference to your DD's sleep. Though I do feel your pain, long haul flights with young children are designed to drive you mad...

Indigo, we are a family of 5 and there are no rows of 5 seats in this plane. I sat with dd and dh sat with my other 2 in another place.

I'm gobsmacked that the other woman kicked the seat!

I have been on many long haul flights. I have never seen the seat reclined whilst food/drink is being served. After, yes, fine. During? No, bAd manners. I think we often want what we feel is best for our precious children, whilst they don't care! Yabu I'm afraid.

I know recliners aren't ideal, but on a 9hour flight, would you really begrudge someone reclining?

Think of that the other way round. The poor sod behind her being reclined on has a 9 hour flight too. YABU.

Your DD remained asleep. It was not a disaster.

I think recliners should be taken out of planes.

In what other environment is it impossible to be comfortable unless the seat reclines by about six inches? People manage the rest of the time on trains, in waiting rooms, in cinemas...

I remember once on a 10.5 hr flight- the person in front of me reclined and I was very uncomfortable being 6 months pregnant. It was really hard for me having the table digging in to my bump. I wriggled out of my seat and politely asked the man in front not to recline and he gave me a look that could turn a person to stone.

It's the entitlement that annoys me- "I've paid so I am entitled to recline six inches at the expense of your comfort, despite us both having paid for our flights. Sod you, as long as I'm all right"

If the seats recline, I would take advantage of it, especially for my child. I'd have told the woman in future take first class seats. If the attendant tried to raise my child's seat, I'd simply put it back down and tell him to complain to his boss if he didn't like it. By the time that was done we'd be off the flight.

I'm sorry, but I get very aggressive if someone tries to mess with my kid, regardless of supposed etiquette. The seat is paid for, recliner and all.

I really wish that airlines would make seats that didn't recline. The two inches or so of recline doesn't make that much difference to your comfort but does make a lot of difference to the person behind you, it makes an already cramped situation even more claustrophobic.

A lot of the airlines I have travelled with recently put out an announcement asking you to raise your seats when drinks and meals are being served.

Well, she is only 5, so spread over her seat and over you.

It's ridiculous for planes with so little seat pitch to have the seats recline at all. I never recline my seat, even on long-haul flights, as a courtesy to the person behind me, and I have asked people in front to let their seat up.

If she needed more room she should have bought first class- suck it up poor people!

Flights and areas for small children only and other flights for over 12s and adults

Much nicer,

I came in from a 7 hour flight yesterday morning.

I would have had no problem waking a child to let my legs move rather more naturally.

Better than me thumping them in the back with cramp.

Boomerwang- nobody was messing with the kid, as you put it. A paying customer was uncomfortable and inconvenienced by an oblivious sleeping child. Your attitude stinks.

Besides which- not everyone can afford first class. Why is it that people who can only afford economy have to put up with a lack of consideration from others?

YABU, I agree with your DH.

She fell asleep and then you reclined her seat to make her more comfortable, at someone else's expense.

She didn't need it reclined to actually fall asleep and she remained asleep once the steward put it back again.

You avoided reclining yours so her husband wouldn't be made uncomfortable, so why not show the same courtesy to his wife?

The deciding factor is whether she would have done this with a sleeping adult. I bet if it was your DH sleeping in the chair she would have just sucked it up rather than risk waking up a sleeping stranger, who might react unpredictably over it.

People seem to think children have less right to their space for some reason.

Yabu.

On cramped planes I don't think seats should recline. It's just antisocial.

Your dd managed to sleep on a non-reclining seat fine.

There was a new seat design that had the seat recline into the users own space (so the seat base came forward, pushing the user towards the chair in front instead of the seat back leaning into the space of the person sat behind). In that situation I think doing as you please is fair enough.

But in a plane, thousands of feet above the earth, it is well to be more considerate of the people you are trapped inside a small tube with. And thinking "because it is possible to do something, and it benefits me, I should do it regardless of the fact it makes someone else miserable" is not a reasonable way of going about your day. I appreciate your daughter was tired and you were probably feeling at the end of your tether given the itinery. But it would have been more reasonable to try and accomodate the neighbour behind you too. Especially since you indicate she went to sleep in the upright position and you reclined the seat later - which rather screams "precious" (which she obviously is to you, but that's not really the best basis for reasonable social behviour).

I never recline my seat, even on long-haul flights

How courteous of you.

Out of interest, how tall are you?

Well every bugger I've ever sat behind has obviously been a novice long haul traveller then. Reclining gits..

Actually the thing that really does annoy me is when people move their seat during meal or drinks service. I don't care where their seat is as long as it bloody stays still.

It's cattle class. You're inches away from strangers farting, sneezing, snoring and burping. The whole thing is vile. I flew alone so many times sleeping as close to a random as I do my DH. You have to show a bit of tolerance or you'll lose your marbles. What is etiquette goes berserk on international flights.

Children don't need as much space at that age

I have to say that all my children were impeccably behaved, made virtually no noise, didn't cry, didn't go to the toilet a gazillion times. Her poor ds (I'd guess around 9yo) had the window seat and I notice he didn't go to the loo for the whole flight. Poor kid was probably too scared to make her move.