To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

I think it's entitled to expect someone who has paid for a seat which reclines not to use it
You are not paying for reclining seat, you just managed to get a seat that reclines, if you are in a back row you don't pay less for a seat that doesn't recline.
The survey also said that 43% want restrictions to reclining on long haul flights as well.
And reclining a push chair doesnt affect someone else, reclining an airline seat does.

You are not supposed to recline your seat during meal service. A lot of airlines even announce this on their planes. The rest of the time, you can.

What I don't understand is this: people are so very eager to exercise their right to recline or flights, but where else do you have reclining seats?

My point is that we get along without reclining seats the other 99% of the time in our lives, so why are people so hell bent on insisting on reclining on airplanes? Yes I suppose it's relaxing, but people manage the rest of the time.

Because it's easier to sleep.

*What I don't understand is this: people are so very eager to exercise their right to recline or flights, but where else do you have reclining seats?

My point is that we get along without reclining seats the other 99% of the time in our lives, so why are people so hell bent on insisting on reclining on airplanes? Yes I suppose it's relaxing, but people manage the rest of the time.*

Because at no other time are you stuck in such a small space, in one chair for 12 hours at a time.
Even at work you can get up and move about, change your leg position etc.

... and the only thing worse than being stuck in a small space in one chair for a long time is when the person in front decides to recline their chair! I think anyone who reclines is very very unreasonable!

Yanbu and I fly frequently , long and short haul, with and without children. Its irrelevant to state that you should only recline seats at 'night' or meal times - how do you know that flight isnt someone's third or fourth flight in as many days and that their eating and sleeping times are going to be the same as that of the locality from which the flight departed? You cant assume anything on a plane . People coming and going from all over and the right to sleep comfortably with or without recline should be respected , more so for children who have no say in the process. Thats about the only 'plane' etiquette I've gleaned from many years of flying .

Bruffin the seats which don't recline aren't the norm are they, they are a small percentage of the total of the plane seats.

Also, PLEASE GOD, can we now not have an argument ver what percentage something has to be to constitute a small percentage.

This thread is depressing. Maybe planes should be split into recliners and non recliners. I suspect the non recliners would have a worse time...

Yabu.
Don't make someone else's life more uncomfortable and purposefully leave it that way. I'm sure your little one would've stayed asleep

i recently had a 8 hr flight with dd (5) and dh. dd was very overtired and fractious and our seat configuration was 2 together and 1 across the aisle. so dd had window seat and me and dh swapped seats now and again to share the 'joy' of overtired child! Whilst dh was in the seat across from the 2 seats, the woman in front suddenly shot her chair back and pinned dh legs down( he is tall with long legs, but already in premium economy!) he was shuffling his legs a bit to stop blood loss and also to get comfortable, and she was very aggressive, confronting him about what is he doing etc. etc. anyway, after a couple of minutes of trying to argue with him, although he wasn't rising to the bait, I went over to try and remove some of the stuff from the seat back to try and make a bit more room for him - she suddenly turns on me and says "you two are the rudest people I've ever met" I was saying, woah, I haven't done anything to you, and she accused me of pulling on the back of her chair on purpose - as I was trying to deal with my dd who was in meltdown mode, and was absolutely exhausted myself I have to say I snapped back and asked her who she thought she was to speak to me like that? She gave up in the end, snapped her chair back up and still went to sleep...I on the other hand cried from sheer exhaustion, then spent another hour trying to settle my dd with the young woman in front of her turning aroundand glaring every time she made a noise/touched the chair in front even slightly etc. (oh, to be there when she has a child of her own on a plane!) and didn't actually sleep at all on the flight because the whole thing made me so anxious...

reclining seats - ban them I say!!

I say ban reclining seats too. I think it's saying "my right to lean back trumps your right not to be squashed" and its' awful. It's not essential to recline, it's just a preference.

Having read the link further up I'm delighted to discover that Monarch have dispensed with reclining seats as I'm flying with them later this year.

Am I the only person who doesn't find it more comfortable to recline, anyway? It's what, a six inch recline, tops? Maybe it's because I'm short, but the recline of my seat makes absolutely no difference to whether I can sleep or not.

Am I the only person who doesn't find it more comfortable to recline, anyway? It's what, a six inch recline, tops? Maybe it's because I'm short, but the recline of my seat makes absolutely no difference to whether I can sleep or not.

Sleep isn't my reason for reclining. I have a bad back. I need to recline or I couldn't fly (economy) on LH flights. I wouldn't even say I recline for comfort, I recline not be in pain. But you're not alone, many prefer to remain upright. I couldn't recline for a whole 12 hrs. I alternate recline with right up.

My point is that we get along without reclining seats the other 99% of the time in our lives, so why are people so hell bent on insisting on reclining on airplanes? Yes I suppose it's relaxing, but people manage the rest of the time.

What other situation in life is remotely comparable to a 12hr flight? No single one I can think of. A 12 hr bus journey maybe, but they stop for pee and food and leg-stretch breaks. Long distance trains we can walk around in, sit in the dining car etc. I don't get your point at all. Can you name any one single place or activity where you get a space that is 17 x 33 inches where you have to remain upright continually for 9 to 13 hrs?

A question for the people who wait till they are on their flight then ask the person in front not to recline because of their long femurs or differently configured legs, or whatever. Have any of you petitioned the airlines to ban reclining? When smoking was normal on planes, I did just that (repeatedly). I hated smoking on planes. But I never once asked a passenger to put their cigarette out to appease me. They had every right to smoke. I had every right not to fly knowing that was the airline policy. I tried to sit as far from the smoking section as possible. But I would never have dreamed of asking someone not to do something they have every right to do. Unless it was a question of life-saving as opposed to just mere comfort, grin and bear it was the considerate thing to do.

Do you all book flights where you can select seats on booking? And do all when traveling as couple/family get your partner to sit in front of you, so he can fulfill your non-recline requests. Or do you do like all the ones I see who feel entitled to sit next to their partners, but also feel entitled to ask the person in front not to recline? Talk about wanting the best of both worlds!

You are not paying for reclining seat, you just managed to get a seat that reclines, if you are in a back row you don't pay less for a seat that doesn't recline.

Of course you’re paying for recline. You’re paying for every feature and facility the aircraft has. Telly, Nintendo, recline, moveable arm rest, seat pocket, head rest, the extra numbers of cabin-crew, the lot. Otherwise it’s called a no-frills budget airline like Easyjet or Ryanair where they don’t have the extras, just the basics. All seats on the same class do cost the same. Poor seats, like the back row with limited recline, are charged the same as standard seats. But then again, so are the better seats like bulkhead and exit row. You don’t get money off a back row seat with limited recline, no. But you also don’t get a refund if your in-seat telly is broken or your overhead light doesn’t work.

It’s very easy to avoid ever getting the back row by just selecting seats at booking, or by turning up early at check-in. There are only 4 seats with limited recline on a 747 with +-300 passengers, and 6 on an a380 with +-500 passengers.

There are not only 4 seats that dont recline, i suspect its nearer 30. We were on the last row before emergency exit and could not recline, I looked at the planss 747 and there were a lot more than 4 against an emergency exit or a back wall.
However last flight a few weeks back, dh paid extra for leg room and if we wanted to move to aisle seats or window seats from the seats we were allocated that was extra as well. Thankfully the whole of the plane was non reclining anyway so we were thankful as it was a 6 hour flight.

I have no idea what airline you're talking about. For the airlines I have checked, it's no where near the numbers you're talking about. I am checking via a booking program I use to book flights for work (lots of people so lots of flights), and it's the airlines own seating plans that program uses. I have never found it to be inaccurate (which is not to say it can't be of course).

but even on seat furu .com they state BA 747 400series has 4 seats on row 55 at the back (seats d e f g) that have limited or no recline. And the row that backs on to the toilets which are in front of the emergency exit (row 37, seats a to k) all are stated there as having limited recline. There are 10 seats on that row, but having sat in those, I know they do recline quite a bit, just not as far as the the standard seats. Even if you included those as non-recliners, that's still only 14 I get to.

I can't find any plane on any "normal" airline that has anywhere near 30 no-recline seats.

I have a BA premier-economy LH flight soon. I paid a lot extra for it, hope it's worth it. I generally hate BA, but their dep/arr times work best for me on this one.

What checking these seating plans to see which seats don't recline has made me realise, lol, the airlines really couldn't give a shit about passengers who don't like recline in front of them. As the very seats (back of plane, backing on to toilets, galleys etc) where seats could recline and no one would get annoyed as there is no seat behind them, are the very seats with no (or restricted) recline.

It's not essential to recline, it's just a preference.

Again, spoke like a true short-haul flier.

Well done to Monarch for joining the ranks of Ryanair and dispensing with reclining seats. Again, irrelevant to the wider picture - these are both carrier that do short hops in Europe.

I don't see the brand, spanking new a380 airbuses, or other cross-continent carriers doing away with reclining seats, funnily enough.

and it's the airlines own seating plans that program uses. I have never found it to be inaccurate

Last flight I took I booked seats according to the seating plan. On both the way out and the way back the configuration of the seats changed and we ended up sitting in non window seats when we had booked window seats. Some couples and families that had booked seats together found that they were now separated.

I don't see the brand, spanking new a380 airbuses, or other cross-continent carriers doing away with reclining seats, funnily enough.

Neither do I. Neither do any of the cabin crew I know in person, or from the airline personnel forum I post on. The best that could ever happen is... there is a "no recline" window at one or two points in the flight introduced. Say from boarding till first meal is over, then from last meal till landing. But I don't think even that will happen as it can takes 3+ hours on an a380 to get the first meal service done and dusted. And on a flight that leaves at 1am, people are shattered and happily skip their meal so they can get some shut eye. The impression given by the non-recliners on this thread is just not representative of LH night flights (jn the real world) where almost everyman and his dog reclines his seat after the seatbelt light goes out.

What could happen, (if only the non-recline brigade would actually speak out where it matters TO the actual airlines, instead of hassling passenger in flight) is budget airlines like Monarch/RyanAir/Easyjet could increase their operations to include medium and longhaul destinations on basic no frills planes. The non-recliners could fly those. The recliners can book the fancier planes.

No way top airlines and flag-carriers are going to be introducing non-recline longhaul in my lifetime. You only have to see what happens when recline breaks in a seat or people get stuck on the back (non recline) row. They (not all obviously) leave their seat and sleep on the floor. And crews, thus airlines, do not like that. And it must be a safety issue. I have often seen 2 on the back row of 4 on the floor while the other 2 shared 4 seats.

pipbin, if a 747 falls out of service due to technical issues and a 777 replaces it, obviously people will suffer. Some will get spilt up from loved ones, get window seats instead of the aisle one they wanted, and many will be offloaded, which is even worse. But planes falling out is the exception, not the rule. And it's unavoidable.

I can't stress enough though ... chose your airline carefully. I am no snob. But it's not for nothing I don't fly certain well known airlines. My favourite airline is much better when this kind of thing happens than other airlines as they do genuinely put far more effort into placing people according to needs/wishes on the other plane with different configuration than other airlines do.

Again, spoke like a true short-haul flier.

Patronising and not true. My last two flights were over 10 hours and I did not feel a need to recline.

What I'd really like to have in economy is a footrest. I flew premium economy to the US earlier this year, and the footrest added so much to my comfort levels. I have short legs and usually on a plane (well, anywhere configured for the majority) my feet only just touch the floor, which causes me a lot of knee pain. Footrests make so much difference.

I HATE reclining seats. And im always behind the bastard that spends the whole flight completely reclined. In the seats I've been in that means they are practically on your lap. I never recline - and I was on an 11 hour flight last Wednesday.

YANBU.

If my 5 yr old fell asleep on a long haul I would do everything I could to make her comfortable and optimise that sleep. Blanket on, shoes off, recline.

The seats include a recline facility. As do all but a handful at the back and even they have limited recline. Don't like recline? Don't use, complain to the airline. Don't expect anyone else to observe your personal made up and bizarre recline etiquette.

I'm pissing myself at long femurs - yes we're all uncomfortable - and reclining being "just a preference" and something we usually manage without. There is really nothing comparable to being trapped in an airline seat for 14 hours. You must surely recognise this.