To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

to ask what strange airlines don't have enough legroom for the first poster, when their dh can sit comfortably on every plane in the skies?

SDTG, the reason I asked this is different airlines allocate different amounts of space. That is not at all strange. That is a fact of flying. Many on this thread are unaware of this. Space allocated to seating doesn't just vary airline to airline, it also varies within the same airline. Depending on aircraft (is it a Boeing 777 or Airbus 330 or whatever type of plane) and depending on the configuration (is it a 2 class plane, or 3 class plane). I did a quick search of one of my favourite airlines and one of my least favourites, and this is what I found.

aircraft type A
favourite offers: : 34inch pitch and 18 inches width
least favourite offers: 31inch pitch and 17.5 inch width

aircraft type B
favourite offers : 33 inch pitch and 18 inch width
least favourite offers: 31 inch pitch and 17 inch width

3 inch more pitch on one than the other, that's a lot in a small space
an inch in width is not to be sneezed at either.

I would put money on my "least favourite" airline being a very popular choice in MN.

Passengers should do their homework regards seat pitch. If they want more space, they maybe should shop around and see which airlines offer it, instead of being passive aggressive kickers inflight, to people who are just using the amenities provided to them in their ticket price.

Those 3 extra inches they get for free if they just shopped around with airlines, would maybe mean they didn't have to demand people in front don't recline.

What people on this thread are doing is the equivalent of rocking up to John Lewis, buying a new telly without any research into specs, then seething on MN because it doesn't suit their needs, and doesn't have a usb port or hd. That's not John Lewis' fault. It's the poorly prepared consumer's fault.

And, if you want to believe every horror story about noses pressed against seatbacks stated on this thread, every glass of wine that can't be sipped from, feel free to do so, while I know the reality.

I checked exact sizes and I was wrong up thread re American and United possibly being stingy with pitch. They're not. They are on the more generous end of the spectrum with LH. It was only one flight I had with them (don't like N. American carriers in general) and I must just have had bad luck with my seat.

Oh thanks Merry for the updates on the actions of all involved - looks to me like all blokes including 'kick-lady' and 'large-bloke's dc stayed quiet throughout - like they tend to do in non-flying mode too.

Good to see the old-timers out now. FWIW I always found sleeping on the floor wrapped round the seat fixings the best way to sleep - throughout my 20-30s I perfected this to even the 2-seat set up by the rear bulkhead. I would offer this option to strangers on a 3-4 row saying you have the seats and I'll have the floor, I'd just bang down enough of those little pillows and blankets and sleep with my fellow flyer on the seats above me. Been awhile since I've done a long-haul now (have they banned smoking on Aeroflot even?) probably wouldn't be allowed now.

Ten Minutes Early.

Well done! They sound like a frightful pair of intolerant people.

Sigh. Yes I do feel some people are suggesting I am lying. I am not. I have long femurs. I must say the continual trotting out of 6' 6 partners who have so much leg room their knees are nowhere near the reclined chair in front is making me laugh. So thanks for that. You recliners are just proving my theory. Not very pleasant or considerate folk.

And to answer whoever it was I have flown with quite a few airlines. Mostly BA, Qantas, Singapore Airlines, Qatar Airways to name a few this year. With the seat in front fully reclined only Qatar was not physically crushing my knees. Anyway you all carry on regardless of anyone else. I suspect some of you probably quite enjoy asserting your 'rights. Yuk.

I fly what I consider long haul a couple of times a year. 2 7 hour flights with a 2 hour stopover, then a 2 hour flight after a 4/6 hour stopover.

I recline instantly.
I then unrecline when I see the meal cart.

It's not just about sleep. I have a back problem which is exacerbated by sitting upright, being able to slump and use pillows helps. In order to cope fully upright for the hour or so of food service, I have to have been reclined a bit beforehand.

My short wee legs on the other hand are not a problem.

I class this as part of my ticket cost and would never consider not doing it. Same as I wouldn't consider turning my nightlight out if I wanted to read and someone else didn't want me to. Or I wouldn't give my pillow up if someone else demanded it. There is very little that makes flying comfortable. I will be using all that is made available to me.

And yes, this affects things like driving massively. At least on planes and trains I can shift my position easily.

Luckily, cars are so flexible nowadays, I can get a decent recline and cushioning to my seat that I can drive for a couple of hours.

curses the bastard white van man who caused this :(

YANBU - I fly long haul a lot, often with children. The lady behind was being completely unreasonable and I would have been furious at the cabin crew for adjusting the seat.

I understand that It can be very confronting when the seat goes back suddenly (I've seen adults having temper tantrums over it) so I always inch it back very gradually and take it up for meals. Other than that, everyone does it and it's fine. If they don't like it they need to pay more for a better seat. I find it very difficult to sleep bolt upright.

I don't think the seats need to recline on short haul flights but lots of long haul flights have passengers taking multiple legs adding up to 20+ hours of travel. Really, if you are not eating what difference does it make unless you have a big tummy?

YANBU- and I"m really surprised at some of the comments here. The seat reclines, so there is nothing wrong with reclining it. Travelling with young kids is very hard, and it is in everyone's interest to keep them sleeping and quiet. People should have more sympathy for yours and your DD's situation (and I had this point of view long before I ever had kids.) It's one thing if a kid is behaving seriously badly- eg kicking seat in front, pulling hair, running around screeching etc for another passenger to ask for the behaviour to stop, but reclining a seat?? Why do the seats recline if it's so incredibly U to recline them?

I suspect some of you probably quite enjoy asserting your 'rights. Yuk.

Just as some non-recliners seem to enjoy asserting their right to a toddler-esque display of seat-kicking and headrest-yanking, in order to make some bizarre point.

Yuk, indeed.

YABU and unmannerly. I never recline my seat unless the seat behind is free. I don't think Ryanair seats recline for those of you so would choose an airline on this basis.

BringMeTea, I'm still reading and I still agree with you. I am not trying to change the recliners' minds and I will continue to ensure that meeting my needs doesn't piss off my neighbours, be they on a plane, tube or next door. If they fail to demonstrate reciprocal courtesies, I will judge them accordingly and continue to suffer in silence. I note that suffering in silence has been redesignated as being passive aggressive, so it seems unless you are prepared to act out and be a public PITA, that is a label you have to put up with.

I don't find seat sizes in economy vary much. I travel in Europe and the US, not business class any more, mainly on flag carriers.

I also have long femurs

No, seat-kicking and headrest-yanking is deemed passive aggressive; not 'suffering in silence'. But clearly that is obvious.

BringMeTea, you didn’t answer the question I asked. Does your sore knees trump my sore back?

YANBU - you booked seats that recline - so you did it. I fly a lot for work and often have people recline in front of me - its part of the flight.

I would much rather have had less room and a quiet 5 yr old and relaxed mother than a little bit more room

You are beginning to sound unhinged. Please try to remember that i am the considerate one here. If you were crushing my knees and asked you to possibly not fully recline and you explained about how your bad back meant you had to crush my knees or you would also be in actual pain, then yes, I would respect your right to cause me physical pain. I am considerate like that.

JapaneseMargaret, only one poster mentioned seat-kicking and headrest-yanking.

In any event neither of those acts is especially passive.

unhinged, far from it. I just know how to spot and deal with bullshit when I see it. Like you asserting how considerate you are, when all you have is sore knees. I have a bloody disability but I don't make half as many demands on my fellow passengers as you do. In fact I don't make any. If I ever get to the stage that my health means I have to start demanding space off of other passengers, I will stop flying or pay to upgrade. Because that is the considerate thing to do.

at least some airlines are seeing sense and starting to ban reclining seats

90% of flyers dont seem to want them anyway.
Dh ended up standing on a flight to miami when we were in the back row and the bloke in front was sleeping reclined and our seats couldnt. The stewards were particularly unhelpful about it as well.

Bring on the non-reclining seats!

My sore knees would trump your bad back, yes. To me, anyway.

Although to you, your bad back would trump my sore knees.

Why would your bad back matter more to me than my sore knees?

BringMeTea You are beginning to sound unhinged.

Seriously? God that is so rude.

And the poll of 1000 people does indeed suggest 90% of passengers would prefer non reclining seats. But here's the thing, it's on SHORT HAUL flights.

Skyscanner, a flight search website, found that nine in ten travellers wanted reclining seats banned or at least restricted to set times on short-haul flights.

skina, don't burst her special little bubble calling her rude, she is the one (self professed) considerate person here you know.

It's taken me ages to read the full thread but I am interested to know for anyone who said that the OP was unreasonable for reclining when her kid was ready asleep, do they have children and if so don't they do the same I a pushchair? If mine fall asleep then I always recline them jn a pushchair even though they are ready asleep.

Also, for what it's worth, I think you pay for the reclining and I would be angry if someone told me I couldn't because it would affect them- we pay more for bulkhead seats so we have more room. I think it's entitled to expect someone who has paid for a seat which reclines not to use if. If you have a specific reason why someone can't recline in front of you the onus is on you to do something about it not wait and ruin someone else's flight!