To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

And since I don't think reclining is acceptable day or night it actually doesn't matter whose night it is to me

Totally agree SerenitySutton.

Actual LOL at FlatBedsInEconomyAirlines

And yes Thumbwitch I've never been so lucky as to fly in economy with seats that recline so far back that they're 2" from someone's nose. I wonder why. Oh wait...

The way I see it is this:
I have paid good money for my house. I have also paid good money for a high quality sound system that can make an awful lot of noise. I am perfectly entitled to open all my windows and play music or watch films as loud as I damn well chose. But I don't, there is no law stopping me, but I am a decent person who lives in a semi detached house in a built up area. Playing loud music will benefit me but piss off other people. I could do that if I lived in a detached house miles from anywhere, but I can't afford it. I'm sure that all the people living in my street would live in a detached house away from others if they could, but the can't afford it.

Now granted declining my seat would only piss off the one person behind me, rather than the whole plane, but it is similar.
Also, wouldn't we all travel in first class if we could afford it? When some people complain about neighbour noise the answer they get is get they should have bought a detached house.
Given the chance we would all live in detached houses and we would all fly first class. But we don't, so we have to do our best to rub on together and not piss other people off.

Nobody is trying to argue an inalienable right to recline during meals, though Koala.

So, Serenity, you expect people flying for 36-odd hours to sit upright the entire time, just in case you happen to be seated behind them...?

Man, there's entitled, and then there's ^ entitled.....!^

Pipbin, the analogy simply doesn't stand up, when you're flying 36-odd hours.

Yes I do. Reclining doesn't equal= sleep. According to you lot they don't recline enough anyway so make up your mind.

If you recline in front of me I'll kick you repeatedly in the back until you move back or one of us gets moved.

Oh wait, Skina, did you read the article I linked to? No? Well, scroll down and look under 'meals'.

JapaneseMargaret, never said they were. I'm replying to the sarcastic 'Where are all these economy seats that go so far back they impede your ability to eat lololol' posters.

I fly in a few weeks time, if any fucker reclines I will take my shoes off, put my legs up and lie them on your headrest.

When was the last time you took a 36-hour flight, Serenity?

You'd kick me repeatedly in the back? Why?

Are you socially inept, or do you just not get out very often..? Why wouldn't you just use your words, and ask me to unrecline, if it bothers you that deeply...?

Which route is 36 hours without a stopover? The furthest I've been is 23 hours, London to NZ
Direct. I can't imagine where I would fly to to add 13 hours onto that?

(Also I'd generally assume recliners were too pig ignorant to bother trying to speak too)

36 hours from local city, NZ, to Oz, to stop-over 1, to Europe. Often more than 36 hours.

You sat bolt upright the entire way, even while everyone else all around you was reclining...?

Well done, here you go:

And LOL at the person doing all the passive gressive seat-kicking, calling other people 'pig ignorant'.

The seats are designed to recline. You're never going to stop people doing it, so seethe and kick away.

I will. Let's hope we don't end up on the same flight eh?

My 3YO is far more polite traveller than you, from your own description of yourself.

Yes, let's hope! And in the meantime, happy seething!

I don't recline, unless the person in front of me reclines. Frankly it feels too claustrophobic to sit upright, but have a seat reclined towards me, as it leaves so little space.

serenity recline doesn't mean sleep, no. For me it means my back hurts less, therefor the chance of sleep may be higher. No recline means really sore back.

and kick my seatback lady and you will get more than bargained for. I don't tolerate passive aggressives. I will get the purser up to sort you out, and I will humiliate you publically while I am it. And the purser will sort you out, air rage is taken very seriously these days. But what a bitch you must be to put the poor cabin crew members though something like that. Cabin crew hate people like you. You knew the seat in front reclined when you bought the ticket. But you go ahead and buy it then become a passive aggressive kicker when it's used for what its intended. You take the word "entitled" to whole new levels.

koala I can't recall a single post that hasn't stated categorically that seats should be upright for meal times. You don't need to trawl the net for articles to prove that, because. 1) the airlines ensure it 2) not one person is disagreeing with it, of course seats should be upright for meals

pipbin poor analogy, because within the bounds or normal you can still use your sound system and still be a good neighbour. It doesn't just have two settings, silent or deafening. We all enjoy music at normal levels. What the non-recliners on here want is people never to recline. Or people on day flights never to recline (never mind they have been on the go for 36 hours). Or people on short haul flights never to recline (never mind this short haul is their 2nd flight, their last one was 12hrs long). You still get to play your music, you are entitled to that. People who pay for a reclining seat are entitled to recline it. People who pay for a seat that comes with a reclining seat in front of it are not entitled to deny fellow passenger what they have paid for. The same way your neighbours are not entitled to deny you listening to music at normal levels.

Air Jordan, eh? Never been on that one (and am unlikely to use it, I have to say). Probably just as well though, as I'd doubtless get kneed in the back the entire time I was in the recline position.

I don't see any issue with having the seat reclined when somebody is having a nap, apart from designated meal times, isn't that what the recline function is there for?!

"I am perfectly entitled to open all my windows and play music or watch films as loud as I damn well chose. But I don't, there is no law stopping me..."

Actually, there is. Noise pollution is not allowed, whether it be bye-laws or actual laws - you can be visited by the environmental health and/or the police and told to turn it down.

I don't ever kick seat backs but I have long legs so the person in front might feel my kneecaps. No passenger or purser will persuade me to make my legs any shorter. Legroom in economy is not generous. I always get an aisle seat so I can move them around while the aisle is free.

Sound systems - wireless headphones exist, music should never be anyone else's problem, but it was a good analogy.

Ooh I've always wanted to go to Petra. Air Jordan here I come...
(Though not really long haul. WIBU to risk flight rage and recline my seat just to test out these awesome sounding seats?).

I am tall and actually cannot sit through theatre performances because of a trapped nerve in my leg. I have to stick my leg out into the aisle to get enough leg room to avoid this.

But I am fine on flights, whether the person in front reclines or not, because I can still stretch my legs fully out as part of them fits into the space under the person's seat anyway.

If a person behind a recliner sits with their knees bent for hours on end and they are tall, they are going to be uncomfortable and presumably locked in psychological battle to annoy the recliner, but I don't really get why someone do that. It is surely much more comfortable to sit with legs straight out than bent at the knee?

Ooh I've always wanted to go to Petra. Air Jordan here I come...
(Though not really long haul. WIBU to risk flight rage and recline my seat just to test out these awesome sounding seats?).

...isn't that what the recline function is there for?!

Yes!

Try telling that to the whingers and whiners, though.

I am still boggling at the idea that cabin crew will take pity on a nutter relentlessly kicking the recliner in front of them, and move them into anything other than a straight-jacket ...!

Seriously, you novice fliers are doing nothing to further your cause.