To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

STDG, to answer your question belatedly. If someone politely asked me to unrecline, I would consider:

• their size or circumstance (eg. Child on lap)

vs. my need. I can say if they were tall or particularly fat or had a child, I would almost certainly unrecline. If I want getting to sleep anyway, I would incline and watch a film. If they looked about my size, and had no child, and I wanted to sleep, I would probably say no if I were really tired. Or say yes and feel resentful about it for days afterwards!

Window seat person either got there before me or paid for it. Window is theirs.

You shouldn't recline if someone if someone is having their food or a drink, thats bad manners. But otherwise its ok, even if its a bit annoying.

Window is theirs? Darn it.

*I never recline my seat, even on long-haul flights

How courteous of you.

Out of interest, how tall are you?*

DH never reclines his seat. He's 6'4"

And what about those entitled window blind hoggers who keep it down when you wasn't to see the plane landing?

Not to open a whole new can of worms , but those people actually are in the wrong. It's a safety regulation that all window shades must be up for take-off and landing. Something to do with being able to more easily orientate yourself in case of an emergency. Cabin stewards usually go down the aisle making people open them.

Also, a bit mean to keep the shade down when other people want to see the pretty view. (And I say this as someone who hates the aisle and always reserves a window seat.)

Unless it is night time, unless you are oblivious (a cunt), to the comfort of the person behind you, don't recline your seat.

As has been reiterated time and time again on this thread, just because it's not a night time flight you, doesn't mean it's not for the recliner in front of you.

Again, inexperienced short/medium-haul fliers obviously coming to the fore.

Yes Japanese - exactly whose night are we talking about? By the time you've done a 24h flight and crossed several timezones, "night" isn't a real concept any more, only "I've been awake too fucking long and need to sleep".

Need to sleep / need to be marginally more comfortable.

Seriously, there are some monstrously entitled people on this thread, and it's not the recliners. It's the people who expect the person in front of them to forego what tiny bit of comfort they can wrest back, for their benefit.

Were you fuck being unreasonable.
Yy japaneseMargaret

I'm also interested in where these seats are that recline so far back that they're 2" from the passenger behind's face, or that involve manoeuvring forks around the headrest to get from plate to mouth. I've never been on a plane seat that reclines that far back!

Picture a passenger who is 6' tall, with long legs. The person in front of them reclines to maximum, so the top of that seat forms a kind of diagonal 'roof' above the tall person's tray. Tall person can't scrunch down to get their face closer to the tray, as their knees are pressed against seat in front, and they're stuck sitting bolt upright.

It is a manoeuvre, believe me. Which is why flight attendants will ask people not to recline during meal service.

I do think it's bizarre to think that people are either 'recliners' or 'non-recliners', though! I sometimes recline my seat and sometimes don't, but I try not to be an inconsiderate arse about it. I keep it upright until most of the initial cabin activity has stopped and they've dimmed the lights. If the person behind me asked me to put it up, I'd just do it. Life's too short.

I usually recline my seat at all times because the person in front of me usually does it too as soon as the flight is up in the air. Domino effect. What am I supposed to do? Ask the person in front who will pass the message on, or not? If such is the etiquette, cabin crew should announce meals and request seats are brought back upright. I would have no problem with that. Until then, I am not reclining, regardless of etiquette.

I do it, I don't do it. It's not something I angst over, or even think much aout. I certainly haven't before this thread.

I've eaten meals with a recliner in front of me. Loads of times. It's not a big deal. Worse things happen in the air.

It so seems like the sort of thing that really, really riles special occassion fliers. Other people just make their peace with the reality that is air carriers that enable their seats to recline.

It really isn't the end of the world.

I hate recliners too.

Japanesemargaret I am lol'ing at your attempts to patronise and embarrass non recliners by labelling them naive unworldly once a year plane users. Nice try at superiority there.

Back again.... Got my fourth long haul in 11 days coming up soon... I am so hoping to have a fellow, considerate, non-recliner in front of me. Non-recliners make good friends.

Japanesemargaret I am lol'ing at your attempts to patronise and embarrass non recliners by labelling them naive unworldly once a year plane users. Nice try at superiority there.

or maybe she what she said because (yet another) non recliner came along and said (for the umpteenth time) people on daytime flights don't need to recline. What should we think about people who don't realise the fact that for many people, that short-haul and/or day-time flight, might be just that for them, but for the guy in front of them, beside them, behind them it's only a tenth of his entire he journey. He has a 11 hour long haul behind him, and has been gone from original destination for 24+hrs and has travelled through umpteen timezones.

if you can come up with a reason why so many non-recliners wouldn't know this, except that they probably don't fly very often, then please share it with me, I'd be interested to know why people don't know this very obvious thing

No, but seriously. What is the big deal?

That, and as long as a). planes make reclinable sets, and b). you have no way of knowing what part of their travel the person in front of you is on and whether it's their night or day, well, you're never going to stop people reclining.

So all you can do is seethe with resentment in a cloud of passive aggressive glory.

Nobody wins. Except, perhaps, the recliner in front of you.

I'm also interested in where these seats are that recline so far back that they're 2" from the passenger behind's face, or that involve manoeuvring forks around the headrest to get from plate to mouth. I've never been on a plane seat that reclines that far back!

I know, lol. I keep wanting to ask them to tell me the airline's name because I obviously haven't flown FlatBedsInEconomyAirlines yet. And I often travel with my 6'6" husband, and although he has leg-space issues I don't have, he never gets a seat back in his face (or anywhere near it). And (clever clogs that he is) he can even eat and drink fairly reasonably with a reclined seat in front of him. I only just realised with this thread what a genius must be!

Funnily enough, those inexperienced folks at 'The Independent Traveller' seem to know what I'm on about. They seem to agree that No one should have to contend with spooning their food out from under the canopy of your seat back.

www.independenttraveler.com/travel-tips/travelers-ed/the-etiquette-of-seat-backs-and-elbow-room

Slow red car- because they assume people stick
To nighttime in the time zone they're on rather than their own?
Air Jordan- seats which decline so far you I once spent 6 hours staring at someone's forehead

Hooray for Koala!