To refuse to un-recline dd's plane seat...

[MerryMarigold]

Dh reckons I am. I reckon I am not.

So, long haul flight. Up at 3am to get to airport. 2 flights, 4 hour transit, bit of a hideous trip.

Anyways, on second flight, dd aged 5 FINALLY falls asleep. Thank God. Recline her seat so she is more comfortable and will hopefully sleep longer. 5 minutes later lady behind pokes my arm and asks me to put the chair up. Not very politely. I tell her my dd is asleep. She says she can't open her table with the chair reclined. (I have done this many times, so know it is entirely possible). I kneel on my chair and help her open table. Says she can't see TV screen. I adjust TV screen angle for her. She then proceeds to kick Dd's chair several times, whilst I get annoyed but decide to ignore.

10 mins later drinks come round and she speaks to the air steward in local language. He says to me. "Can I raise the seat?" and I tell him dd is sleeping. He says, "I'll do it gently" and just leans over me and does it. Thankfully she didn't wake up and managed to sleep in a contorted way for a lot longer.

I am usually the sort of person who doesn't stick up for myself and who doesn't like putting other people out (I didn't recline my own chair for the entire 9 hour flight as her large dh was behind me). I was very tired, I think that's why I was a bit arsey. I am also not being PFB. I have 3 children, but the others were not as tired and were fine.

Dh said it was her 'right' to have the seat up at least until the food is cleared up (this is probably at least 3 hours into the flight as it's a long flight). I said, "Says who?" Does her right to eat more comfortably trump my dd's right to sleep more comfortably?

So who is right?

sitting bolt upright for hours gives me ferocious backache. Seats are made to recline a little. If everyone reclines everyone gets the same space.

no-one has to fly. If you don't like the lack of space and can't afford an upgrade, don't fly.

Phylis, the woman did have space to put her drink down. As the OP proved when she showed her.

I've never heard of plane tables that don't work when the seat is reclined. The only time I've ever seen anyone be unable to use the table is when they have been very large themselves.

Who WOULDN'T pay for first class to avoid thoughtless fellow passengers in cramped surroundings, if they could afford to?

I wouldn't. People using chairs as they were designed to be used doesn't bother me in the slightest. I really can't see what difference two extra inches in front of you makes.

sitting bolt upright for hours gives me ferocious backache.

but I assume you are not 5?

It is irrelevant whether she is 5 or not. Either it is OK to recline the seat for comfort or it isn't.

People who recline on short flights drive me nuts. But on a long haul flight I suppose it's more understandable. I thought there was usually more space between rows on longer flights in any case?

You can get the table down, but the angle that the table and the seat form when the seat is reclined usually means you can't fit your cup into the cupholder. That's a bit of an issue if you have a hot drink and don't want it sliding around the table.

People should just show a bit of consideration.

The fact that your DD fell asleep while the seat was upright and did not wake up when it was put back to upright position means you were being unreasonable. Clearly it wasn't an issue for her so you made a big fuss for absolutely no reason.

We flew monarch recently and they have started replacing the seats with non-reclining ones that have tablet holders in the headrest of the seat in front. It was brilliant and you actually get more legroom because the seats are thinner.

Agree with those that say you should only be allowed to recline when the lights are dimmed for 'sleep time'.

You could say that people should just hold their hot drinks if they want them (or the airline could use shorter cups) to show some consideration for other people.

People could potentially have a hot drink on the go for an entire flight, I don't think that's a valid reason for not reclining a chair. One persons right to not hold their own drink doesn't trump another persons right to use the seat they paid to use in the way it was designed.

That's it Something There's no need at all to bloody lie down during a journey. It's self indulgent and ridiculous. Read, watch tv, go for a little walk....but don't automatically start to drink alcohol and or sleep. The sleeping is for night time and the drinking...well, the amount of people who associate air travel and even train travel with getting pissed astounds me!

You are not in the slightest unreasonable. I do a lot of long haul travel and everyone reclines and it is not considered at all rude apart from during mealtimes.

Mumsnet is completely weird, I bet if you had written that you were sitting behind a mum with two children who reclined one of the seats to let her child sleep and you asked her to move the chair to a sitting position so would have outraged people telling you she had paid for her seat, why should your discomfort come before a childs yada yada yada.

And I can't see how on earth you were being sanctimonious or passive aggressive by helping her sort out her table and screen, I see it as helpful [shrugs].

I also don't get the "well I am incredibly tall" stance that some people take. I am fairly tall with long legs and have plenty of room on long haul flights. As I travel a lot of my own I was interested to see how my husband would cope on a recent long haul flight as he is 6.2 but he had plenty of room in his seat even when the person in front reclined.

God we have turned into such a po faced "my rights" culture haven't we. Whatever happened to just being neighbourly?

Find it pissing hilarious that people think they have a right to recline their seat - there's no such thing.

Consideration in this situation means that if someone behind you is having a drink, put your seat upright and suck it up for a bit. Then if you've finished your drink/meal, accept that someone in front of you might want to recline and snooze and suck it up for a bit. It's a small space, nobody's comfortable, so let's have a bit of give and take from all concerned.

MY GOD I'm on a roll here, let me have a crack at sorting out Israel and Palestine now.

YABU.

Your DD fell asleep sitting up, and ultimately continued to sleep sitting up.

You also knew that you would be doing an awkward journey with three kids at a crappy time (I won't say 'chose' as I appreciate you may not have had much option on the logistics).

The woman behind sounds a bit like hard work too - tbf I think both you & her were tired & cranky & determined to make a point.

If you recline and it isn't night-time, YABU.

I had a woman recline in front of me the whole way when I was flying back from Australia. She was simply too large for her seat. Her weight made the recline much greater, meaning I couldn't put my tray table down to eat. The stewardess tried to put her seat up so she could serve me food, the woman was actually stuck in it so it wasn't easy and she was going mad about being asked to sit upright. The chair eventually popped forward very violently and the woman started shouting saying she was in pain. And repeat for all meals. As soon as her meals were done she tried to recline, but the stewardess told her she couldn't when my tray table was down which made her very angry!

I was unlucky, the man next to her was upgraded as he couldn't fit in his seat because of her, meaning DP had no-one in front of him. If people can't fit in their seat they shouldn't be allowed to fly. At least not sitting in front of me!

Fair - of course people have a right to recline their seat, that's why the chairs recline.

Short haul is a bit different as there is not much room if people recline and it can affect the angle of the tray of the person behind but on long haul it doesn't make much difference at all to the person behind. The distance in between rows of seats in short and long haul are quite different. I agree that reclining on short haul is annoying but no-one knows the reason why that person chooses to recline and if I happen to be stuck behind a short haul recliner I just suck it up. I wouldn't dream of asking someone to un-recline that's just rude and far more entitled than the recliner.

The woman behind was being aggressive and entitled in my opinion and the OP showed some consideration by helping her, a lot of people would have just ignored her. Flight attendant was wrong to un-recline the seat.

Flight attendant was wrong to un-recline the seat. Wrong. I have an inkling that the flight attendant knows what is right and wrong when it comes to flight etiquette.

I look at this in 2 ways. If I were the OP in this situation I would have tried to compromise by bringing the seat back up half way or so, so that DD could still be semi-reclined and more comfortable but the lady behind have an acceptable amount of space.
As the passenger behind I wouldn't felt the needs of a young child trumped mine and gone for as long as possible without disturbing mother or child until I really felt I absolutely could go no longer with the seat reclined. I also think a young child who's likely to be overtired is best left sleeping for as long as possible.

*wouldv'e

YABU, very, and kids have short legs so should not be depriving adults of their legroom and eating room.

I would like reclining seats to be removed from all planes.

I have never kicked a sleeping child's seat but I have death-stared children kicking my seat and I once screamed out loud at an arrogant fecker who was set to recline all the way to the ground.

I am almost 6 ft tall and never recline, simply because I know what an absolute pita it is for the person behind.
I never say anything though when I am reclined on.... (last time 2 wks ago and I was in last row so couldn't recline myself) I just mentally add the person to the inconsiderate shitlist.

I took a flight a few weeks ago and I was travelling with a 3 yr old in her own seat and a 19 mo on my lap. The guy in front of me (with 19 mo) had his seat reclined for the entire journey (albeit only 1.5hrs). He was asleep the entire time. There was no way of getting the table down, so no drinks or snacks. I also couldn't reach down to get anything from our bags. I just thought what a complete and utter t**t. It's just bad luck though to encounter. I agree that planes shouldn't have them. When the stewardess asked me what I would like for a drink or snack I just gave her a look as if to stay where the hell would I put it?

By showing her how to move the tv screen etc, the OP was being PA - the woman was obviously trying to get her to pull her DD's seat back up straight - it sounds like they were excuses to avoid having to ask outright.

Goldi, you could have used your three-year-old's table, no?

Phyllis, 'MY GOD I'm on a roll here, let me have a crack at sorting out Israel and Palestine now.' The floor is yours. Let us know how you get on.

Tall people can sleep upright because their heads tilt back over the top curve of the seat. Shorter people have their heads slightly pressed forward by the bulge in the headrest which makes it impossible to sleep unless the seat is reclined.