To be shocked at how many people think having no contact with family is normal?

[dogscatsandbabies]

I'm a lurker. Can't help it, I find AIBU gets me through many a night feed. I'm always totally shocked at how blasé some posters can be when giving advice "she sounds unbearable to me, I'd go NC" and similar phrases.

Really? Just like that you'd advise someone you don't know to break all ties with a relative over a situation you've only heard one side of, creating a family situation that can become unbearable for husbands / wives / siblings who are very literally stuck in the middle?

I know there are some situations when decisions are taken not to see family anymore for various good reasons but I'd seriously hope these were carefully considered and thought through in time given the wider impact it can have. NC just seems so normal to so many. Is it just me that thinks (safety of children etc aside) most problems are at least worth working on?

That was what I was talking about, Koala, but found everyone else was interpreting it to be about abuse.

Except that nobody, as it has been explained at quite some length, and detail does go no contact for reasons like that.

And these examples of threads where MNers urge no contact for similarly trivial concerns haven't been forthcoming.

Perhaps that's because they don't exist?

If you can find an example of someone suggesting NC for something trivial (except a joke thread) then please link to it here.

It sees that , for most people, spending time on Mumsnet makes them a bit more open minded. They realise that there is often a back story, things about other peoples lives they never knew or understood before. That things are sometimes not as black and white as they thought, more complex . They get a tiny insight into what it's like to live with special needs, serious illness, domestic violence, mental health problems , abuse .

Most become just a little more understanding and compassionate . Sadly not everyone . Some just become more and more entrenched in their narrow world view

Maybe if people looked at the bigger picture, there'd be fewer fractured families and less loneliness in the world.

This can work both ways round. There was a thread on here where the poster was struggling with her MIL. She kept wading in an controlling the Posters SD, and was having an issue with MIL storming in and tidying SDs bedroom. It seems like such a small thing, and I suggested some ways of negotiation, which the Poster took on board and tried.

It turned out that this was just the end stage of the MIL dominating, not listening, not compromising and undermining the Poster. The poster was still trying to fix one individual petty problem at a time. Unfortunately, a few months later, it culminated with the MIL screaming at Poster in the street and driving off with the Poster's 6 month old baby.

Yes - I should have seen the bigger picture. Tidying the SD's room turned out not to be petty at all, but one of a bunch of ways that she was controlling her DIL.

This 'People have to work on it!' thing is absolutely true. However, BOTH parties have to be prepared to work on it. I had issues with my MIL when I was pregnant with her first grandchild, and for about a year afterwards. Half of this was me not dealing with things particularly well. The other half was her being of the opinion that her way was best and quite pushy getting that into place. She is an exceptionally pushy woman, but she is NOT narcissistic. There is, of course, a difference.

BOTH of us worked at it. BOTH of us learned to respect the other one. Neither of us whined, cried, feigned illness and so forth to get our own way.

Things are good now - generally we get on well with some occasions that we don't. That's normal - I wouldn't expect either of us to have no character flaws.

If one party generally thinks that they do no wrong, that there's no need for them to change and compromise or even listen to the concerns of the other which are clearly nonsense, that it's not their fault that the other is getting hurt, that they don't mean these things personally, that the other shouldn't be so sensitive or shouldn't take all their 'jokes' so seriously, then that's when you see narcissistic tendencies coming through. They're ways of diminishing the other one, defecting responsibility and leaving all the work squarely at the other one's feet.

That's when there's a problem.

Anyhow, like flippinada, I'm looking forward to this list of threads where loads of people suggest NC over tiny things.

Yes. I would like to see concrete examples of someone being advised to go NC over something trivial.

We are NC with DH's entire family, through his own choice, to the extent that none of them even know about DS. It's heartbreaking for me and I feel I've let DS down by not giving him a 'whole' extended family as we only see 'my' side. But it's what DH wants.
So I also find it upsetting when it's suggested people would say 'go NC' for trivial things.
MN has some wise and experienced posters and I've never seen NC suggested for any situation that I would think was trivial.

Erm, I don't think linking to specific examples is going to go down well (with that thread's OP/posters). I'm also not keen to get into a bunfight over what is, and isn't, trivial.

As a general impression, I think some posters on MN are too hasty to advocate going NC. If you don't, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

That was what I was talking about, Koala, but found everyone else was interpreting it to be about abuse.

The problem is, you claim to see these trivial examples, which I and others on threads have never come across, so we can only assume that you are reading threads that we recognise as abuse, but you see as trivial. If you can point to a single example where someone has gone NC or been told to go NC over a petty disagreement then we will all concede your point. But at the moment it feels like you keep telling us over and over again that the abuse we see on the threads is in fact trivial, which is why we keep coming back with examples to try to explain to you that it is abuse, and it is incredibly frustrating that you keep taking it and saying, well of course I don't mean that, you must be over sensitive, you don't understand, I haven't done anything wrong.

To be honest koala I thought you hadn't read through the thread.

I just find it hard to believe someone would read through all the stories on here and, then come out with a statement about how people should just try a bit harder and then there wouldn't be so much loneliness in the world.

Please excuse the random comma, no idea where that came from.

I agree with looking through, all these 'little petty things' can form a bigger picture. All the cases on mumsnet where an op has been advised to go NC have been those where the op has been treated appealingly by that person, has been undermined, abused and harassed. I have never ever on my 7 years on mumsnet, heard of an op being advised to go NC over something trivial. Usually Mumsnetters offer varying solutions of advice if it's so.

Yes it takes two to make things work, why should op put in all the effort and put up with rubbish, the other person has to work at it too, and if they don't there is nothing you can do but cut your ties and distance yourself.

But Koala what happens when you're dealing with people who don't try a bit harder with you? My mum has said cruel, nasty things to me, and flown off the handle if criticised, ever since I was a child. Why doesn't she try a bit harder to understand that being that rude hurts me, or that she might actually occasionally be at fault? Because she can't. All the trying harder has been done by me. Trying harder not to mind, not to say anything about her latest vindictive comment, to be nice to her to make sure she doesn't feel upset. I have tried harder.

Yes ok we have got one side of the story so we have to go by what op has said and trust what she says is the true picture. So advise accordingly!

I thought lookingthrutheFOG's post summed it up beautifully.

Now and then you look at an original post and think 'well they just need to talk!"

But if you've been in the situation with a toxic family, then apparently small things can sometimes be a recognisable trigger for an entire raft of nasty stuff going on under the surface ... Just what looking said. To someone from a happy home, it looks like nothing. Becuase they don't (fortunately!!) have the experience.

And I'd second in big letters what she said However, BOTH parties have to be prepared to work on it

BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO WORK ON IT.

And very often sadly that's not the case.

Yes meerka those on here saying work on it etc do not have any experience of being on the receiving end of a toxic family member who makes you feel like crap. Think about this, if op replaced her op with husband/partner instead of mother, father, fil/mil everyone would say she is being abused it's horrendous LTB, but because it's a blood relation you have to put up and shut up!

I keep thinking the same! that if you substituted the word 'partner' for 'parent' the chorus of LTB would be unanimous. But because it's a parent ... [hmmm]

IME by the time people are suggesting NC as an option, the OP has been "working on it" and "trying harder" for years and nothing has worked. People are saying to them "look, you don't have to keep trying, going back for more pain".

It's the guilt about the relative being lonely and miserable that is one of the things that often keeps the OP going back and trying again

Exactly petula, op has usually been trying for years to please this person, and as a return has got more abuse or mistreatment. People are saying on here, you don't have to take it anymore, you do not have to put yourself through that anymore! Take a step back, and distance yourself from that person. Yes going nc isent easy, but sometimes it's tge only option and bring In communication with that person is bad for op well being and health.

this is quite mean to say, and I don't actually mean it, as I wouldn't wish toxic parents or in-laws on anyone, no matter how big a prat I found them to be on an internet forum.

but I would like to see how someone like the (family-person) delphinium would react if her daughter grew up and married a man whose mother was toxic as hell and was diagnosed with borderline PD with narcissistic tendencies. I wonder if she would still be advocating "all it needs is a bit of give and take dear". I am sure she'd be telling her daughter "look sweetie, you married the guy, you married his family, just be a bit more accepting that we're all different". Oh and then of course she could say the very helpful line "darling daughter, yes your mother-in law might be a tad awkward, but just think sweetie, your babies share her genes and you wouldn't abandon them".

Yep, delphinium would learn a thing or two if any of her children are (god forbid) unfortunate enough to hook up with a bloke with toxic parents. I don't think she'd be doing her pearl-clutching, looking down the nose speech of "well some of us are simply family people, and some of us aren't".

Back when I went NC with my parents my older brother had a newish GF at the time. That GF was horrified at my decision. Utterly and totally and vocally horrified. I mean how could I when we had such a sweet on the surface mother. I wouldn't say brother's GF NC-ed me, but she did avoid me in a big way. About a year after my NC she and my brother married. About 6 months after that I had her on my doorstep in tears, near mental-breakdown because of my mother and the strain she was putting on my brother and her's marriage. About a year or two or three later they divorced, quite hideously. None of my family (20+ yrs later) have any contact with that ex-sister in law, except me.

It's so easy to judge when you're not in it, or are only (like ex-sis-in-law was initially) in it in a minor way.

Koala, If you didn't want to get into a bunfight perhaps it might have been better to read the thread before posting a thoroughly discredited view?

ADHDNoodles YY to going NC not being a magical fix. It has caused us no end of problems, some of them completely unexpected and unforeseeable.

It's also worth remembering that those going NC even for very good reasons very often and by some twisted logic become the villains of the piece.

mysticpizza, I did read the thread, actually. It doesn't mean I have to agree with the majority.

'A thoroughly discredited view' implies some kind of scientific fact, FGS. I'm posting an opinion; not something that can actually be 'discredited'.

Well, Koala you're the one who said you didn't want to get into a bunfight. I thought I was being helpful in pointing you in the right direction for avoiding that.

I'm quite surprised at your interpretation of 'discredited'. Maybe you should check out the dictionary definition.

I'm perfectly aware of what discredited means. And nothing has been 'thoroughly discredited' on this thread, I'm afraid.

You're not trying to 'point me in the direction' of anything; you clearly have a personal axe to grind on this topic, and can't abide anyone having a different opinion to yourself. Carry on.

Mystic and Noodles, (I don't want to derail this thread, so please forgive me delphinium), but while I absolutely agree with Noodle's point upthread about the wider implications of possibly losing valued family members, that MUST be considered and inevitably will happen to most I assume, and it can fucking hurt to lose contact with a family member you value. However, I didn't at all agree with Noodle's point about having to have some special kind of willpower to avoid all the games and drama and BS after NC. That was not my experience at all. Pre NC it was impossible to avoid the drama/games/bullshit. After NC it was a doddle. A breath of fresh air. For the first time in my entire life I could experience drama free, bullshit-free, games-free life. I also don't think I (or my husband) experienced any unforeseen problems. We kinda knew in advance some people would blank us/judge us for our decisions, that went much as we had predicted. And I suppose like I said upthread about my then sis-in-law, yes I suppose I could say I was vilified somewhat, but I also knew it was only a matter of time before those people got caught in my mothers net too. And I was proven right. BUT.... I hasten to add.... I am around 25 yrs NC and my mother is an "in your face - mad as a hatter" toxic person. It is different with my husband's mother who is much more of a closet-abuser who can keep up a perfect appearance to the outside world. My mother can't. She poisons every single relationship, close or superficial, that she gets in to. So I suppose after more than 2 decades everyone "gets" why I went NC with my parents, but my husband isn't as fortunate as not so many people are aware of how toxic his mother is, as she is only really toxic to my husband and his father.