To be shocked at how many people think having no contact with family is normal?

[dogscatsandbabies]

I'm a lurker. Can't help it, I find AIBU gets me through many a night feed. I'm always totally shocked at how blasé some posters can be when giving advice "she sounds unbearable to me, I'd go NC" and similar phrases.

Really? Just like that you'd advise someone you don't know to break all ties with a relative over a situation you've only heard one side of, creating a family situation that can become unbearable for husbands / wives / siblings who are very literally stuck in the middle?

I know there are some situations when decisions are taken not to see family anymore for various good reasons but I'd seriously hope these were carefully considered and thought through in time given the wider impact it can have. NC just seems so normal to so many. Is it just me that thinks (safety of children etc aside) most problems are at least worth working on?

Slowredcar

I know, trying to force a relationship that isn't dysfunctional when you're dealing with extremely dysfunctional people is like banging your head against a brick wall....a phrase I use a lot when talking about my mother!!!

i think it's "being a family person" that often keeps people tied to an abusive relative. they crave a family that is loving and robust enough to incorporate everyone's differences and disagreements, and enjoy spending time together and support each other. it's a huge wrench to realise that the happy family they want may not be able to include that abusive person

Petula, that is definitely true in my family with my brothers and sisters. I went NC with my toxic parents over 20 yrs ago. Back then my sister was a fairly stable person, fairly strong, a good enough mother to her own then young children, and held down a good job, had a happy enough life. I warned her then that staying around my toxic mum and dad could/would pull her down and put untold stresses and strains on her marriage, her children, her mental well-being, her life in general. Fast forward 20-25 yrs and she is an alcoholic, divorced twice, umpteen fucked up short term romances, has trouble holding down a job, her mental health is shot to pieces, her own adult children have gone no contact with her, she never sees her grandchildren. Her life is a mess, she is a mess. But - she did definitely try to be a "family person" with my toxic mum and dad. The last time I spoke to her she said "it's too late for me now, my life is fucked, you got out in time, I didn't".

That's so sad slow.

Slightly confused

If you met me in RL you wouldn't know I have no contact/minimal contact with my mum, even if we were friends.

If you were to ask ' hows your mum doing?' I'd just say ' fine' and pretend she's too busy to visit us.
I'm not going to start talking about the problems i have with my mum with even close friends cos its complicated and to be perfectly honest, boring. I talk about it with my sister and occasionally my partner, who else needs to know?
To me it's a subject that upsets me greatly, to anyone else who isn't involved, it's nothing more than gossip.

You might be surprised to learn that they're are many of us no contacters wandering around in RL!

it is Adam, and what's sadder is it's true for all of my siblings. They're all pretty fucked up individuals now, and they weren't back in the late 80s. They were all fairly successful young married people with nice husband/wives, good jobs, young kids, and positive futures. I, as the youngest sibling, looked up to them back then. All my siblings now have alcohol problems, to be honest I am sure they are all alcoholics. And the sad thing is, I "get it". Although I don't even drink at all, I get why one would have to turn to drink to be able to cope with my toxic (and alcoholic) parents. My sibs have all had numerous marriages and numerous volatile relationships and just loads of problems in their lives in general - jobs-children-relationships-coping-self esteem-self control.... my parents have "fucked them up" in their adult lives in the way they didn't quite succeed to do it in their childhood years, I do think I had a lucky escape by getting out in the nick of time. I remember thinking (as the youngest child) when I hit 18 yrs old "phewww my parents haven't broken us kids.... we're all fine.... we're all going to be fine.... we all got there in the end". I just assumed if you survived the first 18 yrs with toxic parents that the rest would be easier. Obviously not.

niceperson, that's more or less exactly how I deal with questions about my parents. I like to say I don't lie as such, I just lie stretch the truth a bit lie a bit by omission, lol. When asked how my mother is, I just say "fine thanks". But don't bother mentioning the last time I actually laid eyes on her was about..... 1996.

I have never bad mouthed my parents to anyone really. My husband knows some of the story, but not much. My very closest friends know even less than he does. One thing I oftn hear from the few people I do tell that I have been NC for over 20 yrs is "wow, that's weird, because you often talk in postive terms of your parents". And that is true, I have always tried to let go of the negative and try to keep hold of what little positives there are/were. This thread and some of the "you're either a family person or you're not" type of reactions reinforce to me why I'm probably right to take the lie by omission route.

If you have been brought up in a dysfunctional or abusive family, you have been trained to believe that your own feelings and wishes are stupid and wrong. All that matters is what the abuser wants you to think, feel and do .

So once you are an adult and able to make choices for your own life, it's incredibly difficult to prioritise your own mental and physical health, your marriage or the welfare of your own children . It feel completely wrong and selfish . Some people never manage to do it, and the cycle of abuse continues

So if you have managed to step away and build a new life, it's VERY painful to have someone , even a passing stranger on the internet, suggest that you have escaped for trivial reasons. Or because you are "not a family person " . Or because you don't want to work at relationships.

To someone else it might be a throw away comment -to you its twisting the knife in the heart .

It just reinforces the message that you are stupid and wrong,that nothing in the world matters as much as the abusers wishes.

So most people who have had to go NC with family member don't broadcast it in RL. They are aware of the prejudice and bigotry out there, they don't want a fight, they don't want to be judged and made to justify their decisions, they just want to get on with building their lives and being healthy and happy .

Kristina, that is very eloquently put.

niceperson - exactly.

Although I very much doubt Slightly will be back to read any of these responses, as not bothering to read before posting isn't usually a sign of interest in discussion.

I think that I read OP quite differently. It seems to have been interpreted to mean toxic, abusive relationships. I didn't think this is what she was meaning at all. There are terrible stories on here and of course you should cut contact- there is no other way.
That isn't what I was talking about. I was talking about not having contact with perfectly reasonable people. e.g when I married DH he got my mother, she wasn't an option and she stays with us, we stay with her and I am certainly not putting my life in a compartment where it is only the children and me who see her. However she is not toxic, she is not abusive- and that is what I thought OP was talking about. I'm sure it was from the title, because those who have gone NC because of dysfunctional, abusive parents don't think it is normal.
It was not about the non contact- it was about seeing it as normal.
I don't think it will get back to the title- so I will leave you to it.
The problem with starting AIBU is that it takes a life of its own- miles away from what was intended.

Surely those of you who have such horrible family experiences don't see it as normal? You can't do as you have cut the contact and are changing it for your own children. That was the question 'seeing it as normal'.

delphinium so why do you trot out phrases like "you're either a family person or you're not" .... and that was said AFTER you'd been on the thread for a while, and knew exactly the many valid reasons many of us have for being NC.

why?

That makes me feel like you think I am just not a family person. I am. I just don't have a family to work with. They're toxic idiots.

I can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. But I can sew you up a fairly nice silk purse on my Singer if you provide me with the right materials and tools to do so.

Can't you see that we can only work with the tools we're given? Given poor tools and materials I can't show off my sewing craftsmanship the way I can with good tools and decent material? The same way Jensen Button can and has won F1s in his racing-cars, but couldn't in a Fiat Panda. You wouldn't call me a poor seamstress cause I can't you make you a nice silk purse from a sow's ear, you wouldn't call Jensen Button a shit driver cause he couldn't win the GP in Fiat Panda... so why do you say "you're either a family person or you're not" to a group of people who have spent inordinate amounts of time explaining exactly why they are NC with toxic parents.

I hope it made you feel good about yourself.

It's complicated Delphinium because you are born into it, so your life is a gradual progression from seeing it is normal to realising it's not OK, due to other influences.

But the OP's question was seeing the NC as normal - no, I know it's relatively unusual. But it is also a good idea sometimes and important that people see it as acceptable. It may not be normal but people should understand it and not judge you for it, ideally.

I haven't seen anyone tell someone to go NC with a "normal" person. It could possibly seem like that occasionally when someone has posted before and some people know all the "back story", and then post with something seemingly trivial/could be innocent; and people start saying "Go NC".

I have a friend who is NC with a lot of her family, most people wouldn't even know that she is. I know a bit more because of when we became friends. I don't refer to it unless she does first, and somethings we haven't mentioned for probably 20 years. If she wants to talk I'm here, but he life has moved on and is much healthier and happier.

Well said slowcar.

I'm a family person... with my own DC and DP. In fact, thanks to the dearth of decent extended family in our lives, we're a closer family - me and DP never go away together without our DC for example, and won't until they can be left alone, because they haven't been able to develop a relationship with any grandparents they could stay with. (DP's family is remote and fairly uninvolved, though not toxic.)

I'm NOT a family person when it comes to the family I came from, because, with the exception of one sister, I can't stand them. Those I am not NC with, I see as little as possible and find even that unbearable.

So it's not the person, is it? It's the family.

That was the question 'seeing it as normal'.

is having one leg normal

is being deaf normal

(I could go on, you get the idea.....there are many things people have no control over)

no these things are not "normal" in as far as, the majority of the population aren't deaf, have 2 legs.... but we don't judge them negatively for it. We accept that is something they have no control over or never chose for themselves or were born with .... as we should with people who turn their back on toxic family members.

I read the OP differently. She seems to be assuming that people advise posters on MN to go no contact for flippant reasons and that people might think this is 'normal' behaviour and therefore be encouraged to follow the advice.

Subsequently, posters on here who have gone nc, with all that entails are pointing out that a)actually, people on here don't suggest NC for 'flippant' reasons (unless it's obviously jokey - e.g. she bought you milk chocolate instead of dark, omg you should go no contact) b) people who do go NC usually have very good reasons for doing so which they (understandably) don't want to share - as has been described here, very eloquently - and c) NC is usually a decision made after a huge amount of trauma/soul searching, and is not used as a common problem solving tool.

I wish we could knock the idea that people go no contact for trivial reasons on the head, it causes a lot of hurt.

Just to add, in fairness to the OP, I think she revised her opinion upthread.

I said it slowredcar because I was talking about something quite different from the majority- but hadn't fully realised it at that point.
Those who have gone nc for a good reason have done it to be 'normal' parents themselves and will be aiming to be 'normal' grandparents. They do not see their own situation as 'normal'. They are not going to suggest it for flippant reasons- they are not the people OP was referring to in OP.
Posters who have gone nc have made this about themselves- it was never supposed to be from my interpretation of OP. Perhaps she can come back and make it clear what she meant.

Excuse me delphinium.

Did you manage to find all those threads written by all those people who think it's normal to go NC for silly reasons?

That is exactly what the thread title is about.

That is exactly the idea that I questioned.

You were going to go away and give us links to all those threads you've noticed that are rife with people cutting out family members for no good reason.

Except that you haven't done that. You've come back and trotted out the same old lines about 'not having contact with perfectly reasonable people'.

I propose that there aren't hordes of people who are NC for petty reasons. There are an awful lot of people who are NC for a good reason, a few people who are maybe just giving someone the sulky treatment, and there's you, endlessly repeating the same groundless statements about 'the casual way people talk about ILs on MN.'

It is beginning to sound very much like you don't have a point. You have an opinion. Which is that your family is fine, no-one in it is toxic, you make an effort with them, but that there's a contingent of people who go NC because they aren't as dedicated as you.

The trouble is that I think this contingent is imaginary, and unless there's some proof that they're not, then this thread is just going to grind round in the same boring circle for the next 750 posts, like this:

'But lots of people cut out family members for silly reasons'
'No they don't, every thread I've read about NC has involved serious issues'
'I just think that people need to make more of an effort, except obviously not if they're toxic'
'But most people who go NC do it because people are toxic'
'But the OP wasn't about that, it was about people doing it lightly'
'But there's no evidence that people do do it lightly. Look at all these stories of abuse'
'Well, obviously they should cut people out, it's when people do it for no good reason . . .'

And on and on until the end of our fingers all drop off.

I need a cup of tea.

I'm not sure that she revised her opinion- she accepted that the thread had gone a different way and went with it. It took me a long time to realise I was talking about something different. Had I known from the start it was a 'stately home' type thread I would have kept off.

I think I need a cup of tea! I accept I am talking about something totally different so am leaving it rather than trail through looking for threads which obviously have nothing to do with the way the thread has gone and so are not relevant.

It was only when I got in this afternoon that I realised I was not on the same wave length at all- so apologies.

If you knew how awful it is you wouldn't minimise it.

I wasn't minimising it- I wasn't talking about it!
Best to leave- I am tying myself in knots and still can't make myself understood. I have never commented on a 'stately home thread' - I had utterly no idea that was what this was- or I wouldn't have commented in the first place.