To think that being Anti Israeli is not the same as being Anti Semitic and to be horrified by the suggestion?!

[SoBloodyOffended]

A pro Palestinian group staged a large protest in my home town and it's currently being discussed on a local Facebook page. All was well until some women came wading in and accused the group of being "Anti Semitic" and then started accusing myself and other people who were speaking in favour of the protest of being "disgusting anti Semites".

I was slightly taken a back at this remark and replied that being opposed to the policies of Israel does not make someone an Anti Semite, but she wasn't having any of it. Apparently being Anti Israel is being Anti Semitic, and we should be ashamed of ourselves for daring to speak out against a group of people who've been "persecuted for centuries".

I'm horribly offended at this statement as anyone who knows me knows that there's not a racist bone in my body, furthermore myself and most of the people who were supporting the protest have been involved in campaigning against the BNP and other racist organisations. Yet apparently because we are appalled and upset about the actions of Israel this makes us anti Semitic!

WTF is she on? I'm fucking fuming!

I would agree with you.

However it seems a lot of people have this view. Some famous Spanish actress, can't remember her name, has written some pro Palestine support letter and appparantly Hollywood are up in arms and she's been called anti Semitic.

Agree wholeheartedly. It is very sad that some people can't distinguish between a state and a religion.

It's really annoyed me, but she seemed unable to see the other side of the argument. How can people be so monumentally thick?

YANBU although it seems there are some people who are using the current situation as an excuse to let loose with general anti semitism.

YANBU. But I would wholeheartedly agree with squoosh's point. And I would say I am against Israel's actions towards Palestine, not anti-Israel or anti-Israeli because they are pretty loaded, dangerous terms, IMO.

YANBU.

'It's anti Semitic' is too easily being used as an excuse to deflect attention away from the barbaric way the state of Israel is behaving. It is a weak and feeble argument.

I am anti Israel, but I am not anti Semitic.

It's usually out of ignorance or a deliberate ploy to shut down criticism of Israel's actions.

YANBU. Protesting against the disproportionate violence in Gaza, doesn't make people anti-semitic. It makes them human imo. I'm Jewish and absolutely cannot condone Israel's actions.

I pretty much agree with squoosh: you can criticise the activities of Israel without being anti-Semitic, but there is definitely a degree of anti-Semitism in some of the posting and commenting on Israel/Gaza.

Loads of entirely reasonable people, many of them Jewish, object to the current actions of the government of Israel in Gaza. Being "anti-Israel" OTOH is ambiguous, because it might mean that you deny the right of Israel to exist. And being "anti-Israeli" is objecting to people purely based in their nationality. Was your thread title just a typo OP?

But on your wider point, the woman was of course wrong to assume that protests about Israel's actions in Gaza are just a front for anti-semitism.

Many many jewish people - and left wing Israelis - are opposed to Israel's actions. Are they then self-hating, by this logic?
This blurring of the lines between the term "israeli" and "jewish" has been encouraged by the Israeli government as a means of deflecting criticism as far as I can tell.
Also if we accept the argument that "Israel" and "jewish" are synonymous, what does this imply for non-jewish inhabitants of Israel?

That would be Penelope Cruz Galaxy, she has backed off, presumably because she and Javier Bardem were worried about being blacklisted.

www.bustle.com/articles/33917-penelope-cruz-backs-off-stance-on-middle-east-we-wonder-what-caused-the-change-of

Yanbu.

But you should be aware that there are anti-semites out there, throughout all different communities and political affiliations. Sometimes 'anti-Zionist' and 'opposed to Israeli actions' really are used as codewords, and sometimes people with really abhorrent views want to hide in a crowd of people whose concern is human rights and peace.

Also the Holocaust and other persecutions obviously remain extremely traumatic for Jewish people. People who are overreacting might have good reasons for doing so IYSWIM, and not just be trying to silence criticism of the Israeli government.

Tell her to wind her neck in, Jewish is a religion, Israeli is a nationality.
Not all Israelis are Jews, some Arabs are Semitic.

The anti semistim that this has released is frightening. There is a new generation who did not grow up haunted by the holocaust and are judging all Jews by the actions of a government.

Being anti the current Israeli actions doesn't make you anti Semitic. However, it can be argued that being anti-Israel per se may well be perceived as anti Semitic. The right of Israel to exist is such a fundamental part of being jewish for most people. It's our safety,it's the place where we know that when things get too bad in Europe for us to stay, and yes I think that will happen sometime in the next 20 years. It's the only place we will be able to go. So yes, in my mind those who say that they are anti-Zionist, which is anti the belief in the existence of the state of Israel are anti Semitic, but I don't blame them. It's difficult to understand how support for the existence of a country and being jewish are so inextricably linked.

Last night my family talked about how this is the worst outbreak of anti semitism we have ever known. My 65 year old father said that he had never seen anything like this in his lifetime. We talked about how we might get visas for the US and indeed would the East coast of the US be better or would it just buy us a few more years before things got bad there too. We talked about whether we ought to be investing in property in Israel, just incase. None of us have a great desire to live there but maybe it's the only option. We talked about whether our children are going to be safe getting the bus to school or should we be dropping and picking them up to ensure their safety.

The threads on here over the last couple of weeks have been a real eye opener, never did I believe that anti semitism was so rife and quite honestly some of the posts have been absolutely unbelievable in their wording and intent. I thought it was thugs and violence and that anti semitism was about having people shout horrible things and draw on our front door but I have realised now that it's far more.

The anti semistim that this has released is frightening. There is a new generation who did not grow up haunted by the holocaust and are judging all Jews by the actions of a government.

The government and its defenders don't really help this. They have continuously conflated the two deliberately by calling their detractors anti-semitic. Hardly a surprise then that others then conflate the two.

YANBU but I am alarmed by what I have been reading about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe. I was on the London march today and heard people talking about the two-state solution and about how for many of the protesters this was not a welcome option as they question Israel's right to exist.

I too question Israel's right to exist inasmuch as the way it came into being was unfair for the people living there. I think the founders were wrong. But, it is now a fait accompli and the children who were born there cannot be blamed for how it came about.

So, I would say YANBU - being anti-Israel is not automatically anti-Semitic. But, sadly, and scarily, some people who oppose Israel are anti-Semitic.

Princesselsanna it's terrible that you feel you and your family may one day have to leave the country due to Anti Semitism, I really hope this doesn't happen. I despise any kind of racism of prejudice, we are all human beings at the end of the day. I was just so taken a back to be accused of something that I actively oppose and hate.

I really feel there is a fine line where well intentioned protesters might be swept up in something a bit more insidious bubbling under the surface.

I am UK born but hold dual British and Israeli citizenship. I love this country. I chose to raise my children here precisely so they would grow up on a tolerant multicultural society.

I am not being hysterical but I can honestly say for the first time in my life I am feeling disquiet about being here, with the way things seem to be going.

Clearly I am not welcome in Bradford as the charming MP has decreed. This is the message I am getting loud and clear, without anyone interested in what I may think about the Israeli government.

YANBU.

• Pro-Palestinian is not pro-Hamas
• Semites include Palestinians, but the word has come to exclude them.
• Anti-the-Israeli-government's-actions is not anti-Jewish.

I live in Europe and in my town there have been some pro-Palestine rallies which have been reported (initially via a presumably well undercover Israeli embassy official in attendance!) to have had a few (two in one march and about the same in another) anti-Jew slogans shouted. It's totally put me off joining, because that's not something I can tolerate and I'd be embarrassed to be part of a march that had such slogans.

What's perhaps interesting is that the marches where this happened were in neighborhoods with a high level of families of Middle Eastern descent. I'm NOT saying that all people from the Middle East have the same opinions, nor attaching it to a religion. It is a fact, for a number of reasons, that some other countries don't teach the holocaust in the way Europe and the US does. Children of people from these countries have exposure to information that, for example, I didn't growing up, because my parents were products of the same/similar system as I was.

So, this "rise" of anti-Semitism in Europe, might not be from skinhead neo-Nazis, but more caused by a failure of our integration policies to tackle it.

Again, I'm NOT saying that everyone from a certain background is anti-Jewish, nor do I have any problem with immigration (I'm a child of it), just that there's an area that's been overlooked in terms of how people with different ideas have those ideas challenged - or not - in Europe and we're seeing them reported now.

Also, look up Hasbara, it can be useful to understand when involved in online discussions on this topic.

Does anyone know how 'anti-Semitism' came to refer only to being discriminatory against Jews? As Bunny said Arabs are Semites as well - I wonder why it's not called 'Judaiophobia' or something else more specific.

Anyway, that's a side point - YANBU, anyone with any sense can see that criticising Israel's policies doesn't make you anti-Semitic, in the same way that criticising the fact that women can't drive in Saudi Arabia doesn't make you Islamophobic. I actually think it does Jews a great disservice to conflate the two because it adds to the perception that they have an eternal persecution complex and are always going on about the Holocaust, when in reality (imo) its effect on Ashkenazi Jews living today is more likely significantly underestimated. (Of course Bibi and his allies have no problem with that, because convincing Israelis that everyone protesting is anti-Semitic lets him pose as a strong leader who can protect the Jews from that kind of dangerous prejudice... )

I have to agree with Gabois here. There is nothing antisemitic in criticising the policies of the current Israeli government. When Members of Parliament talk about making British cities "Israeli-Free" then they have crossed a line. Both sides will do this, of course, some will call any Palestinian Solidarity protest antisemitic by its very nature, when clearly that it not necessarily the case but equally much pro-Palestinian rhetoric is interspersed with antisemitism. I was pleased to note that the Facebook page of my local Palestinian Solidarity group had been kept free of such racist rhetoric, shame about that of my local MP.

I agree. I'm not in the least anti-Semitic but I actually would describe myself as anti-Israel. That doesn't mean it's right to exist but I do think how it came about created a huge injustice and that this has been ongoing since 1948, and that Israelis basically live at the expense and suffering of millions of other people. And I'm anti that.
So I want Israel to continue to exist in a way that brings fairness to everyone in the region.

I would personally not wish to join any pro Palestine marches or petitions. I would want all my protest to be organised through a neutral organisation. I am not pro either side but I am totally anti the current horrendous violence. By siding with any pro group then we, by default, are deemed to be anti the other side.
The truth is that here are two countries that basically do not agree that the other country has the right to exist. They both have the right to defend themselves if they are attacked, although of course we know that the current force is massively excessive. I can't honestly see how this conflict will ever be resolved especially knowing the level of hatred against each other that exists on both sides. War there will never stop until all people on both sides truly want peace and that seems a very long way off yet.