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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that being Anti Israeli is not the same as being Anti Semitic and to be horrified by the suggestion?!

169 replies

SoBloodyOffended · 09/08/2014 19:27

A pro Palestinian group staged a large protest in my home town and it's currently being discussed on a local Facebook page. All was well until some women came wading in and accused the group of being "Anti Semitic" and then started accusing myself and other people who were speaking in favour of the protest of being "disgusting anti Semites".

I was slightly taken a back at this remark and replied that being opposed to the policies of Israel does not make someone an Anti Semite, but she wasn't having any of it. Apparently being Anti Israel is being Anti Semitic, and we should be ashamed of ourselves for daring to speak out against a group of people who've been "persecuted for centuries".

I'm horribly offended at this statement as anyone who knows me knows that there's not a racist bone in my body, furthermore myself and most of the people who were supporting the protest have been involved in campaigning against the BNP and other racist organisations. Yet apparently because we are appalled and upset about the actions of Israel this makes us anti Semitic!

WTF is she on? I'm fucking fuming!

OP posts:
Roonerspism · 10/08/2014 08:10

I think even saying "anti-Israel" is troublesome as many left wing Israelis are horrified too.

princess am I horribly naive in thinking Jewish people no longer feel safe in the UK? This makes me terribly sad.

I'm devastated about Gaza but I don't for one minute think differently of my Jewish friends in the UK. I feel for everyone caught in this conflict. There are protests in Tel Aviv.

Until the hatred stops - the world will never move on.

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 08:11

Yabu and yanbu. Antisemitism like any form of prejudice can be very hard to detect but I think it's bubbling close to the surface. Many liberal people really do question Israel's right to exist which I think is an antisemitic position.

dingalong · 10/08/2014 08:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SecretNutellaFix · 10/08/2014 08:34

Most people who voice an opinion do so without any real understanding of the underlying issues.

There are many of them who change their mind depending on the person they are speaking with.

What a lot of people fail to realise is that Israel began the land grab in 1947 when the UN voted to create the state of Israel in what was then British Palestine by dividing it up. If you get forcibly removed from your home, you are going to want to fight it aren't you?

Hamas are an extremist group and I support neither Hamas nor the Israeli government. It's always civilians who will suffer and I find it appalling that a people who were forcibly evicted from their homes and land should do so to another group of people.

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 11:51

Many liberal people really do question Israel's right to exist which I think is an antisemitic position.

I think this view is part of the problem. I understand that some people believe that it is anti Semitic to question Israel's right to exist, but why? It's not a position I understand at all.

How does a belief that it is wrong to create refugees by setting up a religious state in an area that is massively populated by people from another religion make a person racist?

There is a big difference between a belief that Israel shouldn't exist as a state, and believing that Jewish people shouldn't be allowed to live in that area. The latter is anti Semitic, the former is not.

specialsubject · 10/08/2014 12:13

of course it isn't the same.

Penelope Cruz thinks that the Israelis are trying to wipe out every last Palestinian and accuses them of genocide. Which is in fact the Hamas policy.

But Penelope Cruz is really very irrelevant. What is happening is that all those who ARE anti-semitic are hijacking the issue as an excuse. Same as terrorist acts by Islamist extremists produce a backlash against Muslims.

"So I want Israel to continue to exist in a way that brings fairness to everyone in the region."

This.

NigellasDealer · 10/08/2014 12:20

she does sound bonkers but on the other hand I have noticed over the years that many people who come out all pro Palestinian are just using as a cover for their hatred of Jews = just an empirical observation

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 12:36

Where does a hatred of Jews come from in the UK though?

I have been genuinely surprised to hear that there is an increase in anti semitism in this country, I always assumed that as whole, British people have had a lot of sympathy with Jewish people because we have all been educated about ww2 and the holocaust.

NigellasDealer · 10/08/2014 12:47

woowoo that does sound really naive tbh

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 12:54

I can see that now that I've learned a bit more recently! But while I was growing up, and then as an unreligious adult who has had no need to really understand all these complex issues, that is genuinely the impression I had. And I'm certain I'm not alone.

NigellasDealer · 10/08/2014 13:01

i suppose it depends whre you grew up

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 13:03

Fair point. I grew up in London.

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:09

"I think this view is part of the problem. I understand that some people believe that it is anti Semitic to question Israel's right to exist, but why? It's not a position I understand at all.

How does a belief that it is wrong to create refugees by setting up a religious state in an area that is massively populated by people from another religion make a person racist? "

You've already gone a step further than what is intended in the "right for Israel to exist" - The state of Israel was set up legally and it is a country acknowledged by the UN. It was established as a result of antisemitism in Europe - as others have said, many Jewish people view Israel as a safe-haven, a place that has to exist. That's not the case for other religions. There is no need for a Christian homeland, or Islamic homeland or Hindu homeland, because they have simply not being persecuted in the same way.

Therefore, opposing Israel's right to exist (in any form) is an anti-semitic position

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:12

And about anti-semitism, I grew up in a not particularly cosmopolitan part of the UK, and I have friends and family who still to this day make derogatory comments about Jews - if you decide to not spend some money "all the jews aren't back in Israel" type comments - it's very close to the surface.

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 13:13

No one deserves a safe haven at the expense of someone else's home and someone else's safety though.

That is not an anti Semitic opinion because it applies to everyone.

NigellasDealer · 10/08/2014 13:14

really woowoo and you did not notice the cries of 'yidddooooooo' =? maybe that was just my area.....

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:15

WooWoo, do you believe that it is impossible to Israel to exist in any form, without being at "the expense of someone else's home and someone else's safety?"

I would say that's an anti-semitic position.

saadia · 10/08/2014 13:15

People who object to Israel for political reasons would have objected regardless of who had set it up. The fact that it was set up as a Jewish homeland is not what they object to. It is the fact that the inhabitants were displaced through violent means.

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:19

Saadia, do those same people object to the right of Poland and the Czech Republic to exist? After WW2, many Germans were re-settled and expelled from those countries. The idea of creating a new state wasn't new to Israel in the 1940s

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 13:21

Nigella, only when my spurs supporting Christian ex boyfriend took me to football matches.

Monet, I'm not sure what you're asking tbh.

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:23

Woo, you said that "No one deserves a safe haven at the expense of someone else's home and someone else's safety though. "

So, I asked you whether Israel can exist in any form, without that being the case - do you believe that to be the case? Will Jews inevitably harm other people?

WooWooOwl · 10/08/2014 13:30

I don't believe Jews will inevitably harm other people. Obviously.

A safe haven could have been provided for Jewish people without Palestinians being forced from their homes. The fact that that happened is wrong, whether or not it was allowed by the UN.

It has nothing to do with the way people choose to worship their God. It is to do with basic common sense that it cannot be acceptable to forcibly remove innocent people from their own homes. There is no way to justify doing that.

saadia · 10/08/2014 13:30

I'm sorry I don't know much about the history of those regions or about the expulsion of the inhabitants. Why were Germans expelled and re-settled? I think the creation of Israel is unique in recent history in that the population of a region was so dramatically altered through violence and mass migration.

There is no logic in the argument that anti-Israel=anti-Semitic.

dingalong · 10/08/2014 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MonetsGarden · 10/08/2014 13:47

I'll be honest, I don't enough about the history of the creation of the state of Israel, but I still think it's an anti-semitic position to believe it shouldn't exist at all now, given it does exist.

Dingalong - your metaphor is very unfortunate because the Jews hadn't "had enough and they expressed a historical affinity with Palestine", there were 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust

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