To think that being Anti Israeli is not the same as being Anti Semitic and to be horrified by the suggestion?!

[SoBloodyOffended]

A pro Palestinian group staged a large protest in my home town and it's currently being discussed on a local Facebook page. All was well until some women came wading in and accused the group of being "Anti Semitic" and then started accusing myself and other people who were speaking in favour of the protest of being "disgusting anti Semites".

I was slightly taken a back at this remark and replied that being opposed to the policies of Israel does not make someone an Anti Semite, but she wasn't having any of it. Apparently being Anti Israel is being Anti Semitic, and we should be ashamed of ourselves for daring to speak out against a group of people who've been "persecuted for centuries".

I'm horribly offended at this statement as anyone who knows me knows that there's not a racist bone in my body, furthermore myself and most of the people who were supporting the protest have been involved in campaigning against the BNP and other racist organisations. Yet apparently because we are appalled and upset about the actions of Israel this makes us anti Semitic!

WTF is she on? I'm fucking fuming!

half drunk please don't minimise the discrimination that the Israeli Arabs face. new laws are discriminating against the Israeli Arabs.

There are more than 50 laws that discriminate against palestinian citizens of Israel
17 of the laws came into place since 2010. Apartheid in the making.

This is how Israeli Arab woman who is a member of the Knesset is getting treated

It reminds me of what Nelson Mandela once said:

In its proper meaning equality before the law means the right to participate in the making of the laws by which one is governed, a constitution which guarantees democratic rights to all sections of the population, the right to approach the court for protection or relief in the case of the violation of rights guaranteed in the constitution, and the right to take part in the administration of justice as judges, magistrates, attorneys-general, law advisers and similar positions.
In the absence of these safeguards the phrase 'equality before the law', in so far as it is intended to apply to us, is meaningless and misleading. All the rights and privileges to which I have referred are monopolized by whites, and we enjoy none of them. The white man makes all the laws, he drags us before his courts and accuses us, and he sits in judgement over us.

How can one not see some similarities?

Answering the OP directly, being Anti Israeli is being prejudiced against Israelis, not anti-semitic.

Haven't read the whole thread, apologies. I don't think you can be anti Israeli without being anti Semitic. However you can be anti the Likud Party and its actions, also anti people who strongly support Likud.

One of the fiercest Likud critics I know is Israeli. Emigrated to Europe as an adult in part because she couldn't stand the actions of her government. She has many relatives and friends in Israel who are equally anti Likud.

So you don't know the difference between a Jew and a Zionist, that is very worrying

MexicanSpringtime it helps to read posts properly. Throughout I have said that this is an important discussion, but we have to be very carful of the way we use language.

"Zionism" simply means the belief in the right of Isael to exist.

Now,there are varieties of Zionism:extremist nationalist zionsm, fundamentalist Judaism, ultra-orthodix, and so on. (As an analogy we don't think that all Muslims are fundamentalist Islamists who want to caliphate).

I don't think you can be anti Israeli without being anti Semitic. However you can be anti the Likud Party and its actions, also anti people who strongly support Likud

Yes, this is the kind of precision in this discussion that we need.

Ha! On two separate threads, I have been accused of being a pedant, (and also obtuse) for asking someone to clarify what they meant when they said they were Anti-Israel.

Apparently, despite other posters on the thread saying that they were 'anti-zionist' or arguing that the state of Israel had no legitimacy, or should be dismantled to be a secular state, I should have understood what their stance was.

There are a minority of Jewish people who don't believe in Israels right to exist. What's that saying, 2 Jews, 3 opinions?

The are Christian, Muslim and atheists who also don't believe in Israels right to exist. Some of those are also anti-semitic. I have to say, reading MN over the past few weeks, much more of them probably are than I had originally thought.

dancing - thank you putting things much better than I could. It is ironic that people who say "I'm not racist, but...." are usually condemned immediately as racists, but those who say they are not anti-semitic demand to be taken at their word.....

Anti semitism and islamophobia are both abhorrent. I also dont think thatone should associate being anti-israel with being anti-semitic. Most people who are against what Israel is doing with regards to the killing of children and innocents, the destruction of their homes and livelihood and the occupation, do tend to clarify this.

Careful language is important but not to the extent that one is constantly afraid of being branded an anti-semitic at the expense of the valid point or criticism of Israel being lost.

Does careful language only have to be adopted by those who are against Israel's actions towards the Palestinians? After all, I don't see careful language being used by some Israelis , many of them who wil be joining IDF soon to wreak more misery and atrocities on the Palestinians. Why is this sort of hate speech not addressed by the israeli apologists? It has become the norm in Israel. I can post link after link after link of how much the Israelis have dehumanised the Palestinians.

Jewish people around the world are horrified, but many Israelis think this is acceptable. A boycott is the least we can do.

Well said, Yruapita.

SamG76 I don't think anyone claims that opposing the Israelis government is anti-semitic

I beg to differ. Even Jews that oppose the Israeli government are called something like self-loathing jews.

It is ironic that people who say "I'm not racist, but...." are usually condemned immediately as racists, but those who say they are not anti-semitic demand to be taken at their word

Yes, I demand to be taken at my word.

Even Jews that oppose the Israeli government are called something like self-loathing jews.

There are many Jews who oppose the current Israeli government's actions. Please show me where they are called self-loathing Jews. I have condemned Netanyahu. No one called me anything.

I don't understand why people don't want to take care of their language. Surely, everyone vigorously opposes what is going on in Syria and Iraq at the moment, but they are able to differentiate that from their Muslim neighbours? Why wouldn't they extend the same courtesy to their Jewish neighbours?

Their choice to be racist I guess.

very sensible point John.

Good point, John - I don't recall the local Buddhist temple having to take on extra security because of the Sri Lankan troubles or the persecution of the Muslims in Burma, not our local Korean church being subject to abuse when the N/S Korean border erupted.

I'm appalled at what is happening in Syria and Iraq and have had lots of discussions with Muslims and non Muslims.

No one has asked me to clarify if being anti - Iraq is anti muslim or anti isis is anti muslim. If I oppose the policies of the Pakistan government that does not make me anti muslim. Not at all. For a start not all Pakistanis are Muslims and not all Muslims are PPakistai. In the same way not all israeli people are Jewish and not all jews are israeli.

When discussing israel with an acquaintance I was asked if I had sided with the Muslims. I said no. Not all palestinians are Muslims. It's not about religion.

I do think though that you have to be careful with language and phrasing when discussing sensitive issues like this.

Well put, somewheresafe

somewheresafe - here's a suggestion. You organize an anti-Pakistani govt demo, and see who turns up. I reckon that a fair proportion would be EDL types who are looking to cause trouble for the local Asians, and jihadists who wanted to replace it with an even more radical Islamic state.

I was in Paris two weeks ago. I am secular Jewish. My cousin and her husband, who I was staying with, are Jewish and both wear the Star of David. We were called, what translates to, fucking Jewish cunts, by two young men. It felt like a kick in the gut. That because of who we were, because of who we were born to, because of what my cousins believe, someone hated us. They hate my cousins, they hate me. They hate my aunt and they hate my parents and birth parents. They hate my children.

I believe the existence of a place where you can be Jewish and be able to practice without any fear for your own safety is necessary. Our history is basically one of pogroms and massacres and persecution. No other country in the world can provide that safety imo, apart from Israel. What the Israeli government are doing (and Hamas of course) is despicable but I would not question the right to the existence of other war torn countries or countries founded in conflict. I don't question the right to exist of Kosovo etc; and I believe Israel and Palestine should both have the right to exist. Unfortunately, I think if two states were formed, the Palestinians would have a shit time of it again thanks to Hamas.

Sam actually there was a local rally/vigil in my area relating to the capture of the 200 Nigerian schoolgirls a few months ago.

It was attended by people of different religions genders and ages including Muslims. It was in essence a protest against the actions of boko haram. There were no edl types or racists.

When people marched through London about the Iraq war it was a protest against the British government. Not the church of England. to suggest that those protesting against the actions of israel, the state, are anti semitic is inaccurate and trivialises real anti semitism as mentioned by posters on this thread.

I should add, during and simce

Since the march against boko haram not one person has suggested or argued that the march was anti Islamic.

I'm so sorry to hear that sarcastic

would people speak like that to other religions/nationalities.