Quick Advice DD2 refusing to go on holiday...

[fun1nthesun]

We need to leave now! dd2 has decided she isn't going (12 years old). Leaving her with relatives/friends isn't an option. She has form for sudden refusals, and in fact we lost £££ the last time she demanded to do expensive lessons and then changed her mind after we had given the money.

Any suggestions? Our holiday is ruined

Eva50 I also felt the same about this post. I would never ever make a small child, for that is what a 7 year old is, ring their grandparents and confess to doing something 'bad'. Yes, to a teacher or to the wronged party if they stole something, but not public shaming and making them 'confess' to people who love them. Sorry, it turns out I am a softy in comparison to everyone on here, I wouldn't do half of these things tbh.

As for her being 12, 12 year old girls can look and feel much more mature than 12 implies. My friend's dd did a range of things to defy her parents at the age of 12 onwards, escalating upwards according to their threats including but not limited to- having unprotected sex with a 30 year old; having unprotected sex with lots of people; running away; truanting at school; using cannabis then moving onto other drugs; drinking in the daytime instead of going to school; laughing in the face of teachers/sws and so on. It's easy to think if you start a power struggle in your own house, you will win. With a defiant but basically nice teen, you will. There are some teens you won't. Only the OP knows what will work here (I hope it is the first of these for her sake).

I'm with napoleon on how to handle it. My sister would have thrived on the door removal stuff and it would have fed it. She would have escalated it and never backed down because she was getting the power and control she wanted. Meanwhile, everyone else is miserable. Sounds great.

I suggested manhandling with the idea that the dh does it if necessary. Especially if, if the op is tthe caver, he's been the one to say 'no means no'. Disengaging and not feeding her power to ruin things for the rest of the family is the way to go.

Ds3 once refused to get in the car for a day out. This was a big issue as ds1 severely autistic would kick off majorly if kept waiting to go out. I left ds3 screaming dry tears in his room & got everyone in the car (pretending to leave him behind - he was about 6 or 7 so driving off wasn't an option). I went back in & found the horror had settled himself down on the computer. I ordered him out to the car, had the day out then laid down very serious consequences when we got home (no computer & no coming out of his bedroom for the rest of the day except to eat then straight back upstairs). It did work.

He has a tendency to overreact/be very stubborn. Occasionally overstepping the mark by some distance. In those cases I find getting him home then dealing with it very sternly works (& he's a lot lot better now). He never behaves this way when by himself - it seems to he attention seeking from siblings behaviour. So I find it important that he doesn't get much attention for it - he's removed, then dealt with later.

but isthisanacidtest - you would be modeling very bad behaviour to a child who has behaved very badly; what would she learn from that? That bossy, angry, stubborn people (i.e. mum) get the opportunity to have power over someone else.

I would spend the holiday having fun with the other DC and gently encouraging her to join in. Give her a get out card to put her strop behind her. If she did, then she would be welcomed, if she didn't then I'd leave her alone for a while. I would make several attempts to have some time alone with her to try and find out what the hell is going on in her 12 year old head.

This thread is very good for highlighting vast differences in parenting. The girl is 12, a kid, not yet a teenager, not a small child. But she's still a kid who needs help.

The girl didn't get here by chance, something is a miss and it needs tackling, but I think some suggestions go way beyond my level of being an authoritarian cunt...and I'm a bit of a cunt

Cate - in my opinion that would be pandering to her bad behaviour.

A holiday costs thousands and thousands of pounds. How would you suggest she compensate the family unit for that? How would you suggest she be punished for ruining something that the rest of the family were looking forward to?

With a hug and some one on one? That, to me, sends completely the wrong message.

How am I modelling bad behaviour by calmly giving her consequences?

Modelling bad behaviour would be rewarding her with treats, a pleasant holiday and one on one attention to find out what is going on in her head. What about her compliant siblings whilst she's getting all this attention and one on one from mum in a huggy pleasant way?

I think you would be sending entirely the wrong message and, as I've said, rewarding atrocious behaviour if you did that.

The one thing I would have done is insisted on her paying for missed lessons. I am very strict about - if you sign up for something you do it until the payments can be stopped. If they refused they'd be paying for it themselves ( out of birthday money/in lieu of birthday/Christmas presents whatever).

Rarely have I had to "pull rank" - I can count the number of times on the fingers of one hand, with both kids together.

They are loved and there is mutual respect in my house - but I would have nipped this in the bud long ago.

This. And it is perfectly possible for two adults to put a 12yo in a car. In her pyjamas if necessary. This child needs to learn that her actions have consequences, and not the consequences she has earned so far. Yes, it's tough. Yes, she will be angry and upset, BUT it is far, far better that she learns these lessons now, rather than at a later stage, when they could mess up her life. The alternative is, as I said previously, that she grows up into the sort of manipulative, life wrecking person that we hear about on here so frequently.

Twelve year olds should DO AS THEY ARE TOLD. No question about it.

Hope you have managed to get away OP. I can't decide if I would like your daughter to enjoy the family holiday or not now.

But I'm another one who has a daughter who at twelve years old towered above me, and I don't think there's anyway OH and I would have been able to force her out of her bedroom, down the stairs and into the car. Unfortunately I don't think there's any easy answer here, but I do think it's NOT normal behaviour.

Sympathy to you and your other children.

Some 12 year olds are probably small enough to manhandle into a car but what happens next?

What if she does it again at the motorway services?

What if she tries to get out of the car when it is moving?

What if she is injured while you are manhandling her?

What if she injures you?

What if someone sees you and calls the police?

Will you do this every time she doesn't want to go somewhere?

What happens when she's 13, 14, 15?

What happens if she damages the car?

What if she calls the police herself?

What if she tells one of her teachers what has happened to her?

There are times it is appropriate to restrain a 12 year old and there is training available for those who may have to do it so it can be done safely for all concerned. What is being suggested on this thread is neither safe nor appropriate.

Sometimes a hug is huge in a scenario like this Says a lot more than making someones life hell

I would not, under any circumstances 'make her life hell'. It's inappropriate. I would, however, not take any truck whatsoever from a 12yo brat hell bent on ruining everyone else's holiday. There is a time for firm handling, and this is it. If we went on 'what if's', nothing would ever get done. This behaviour should have been tackled as soon as it started, but it hasn't, and it needs to be dealt with now.

Frogmarching would work perfectly well. However, it seems like the OP has managed to get her in the car, and is on her way. I hope they have a lovely holiday, 12yo included; and when they get back some very firm ground rules are laid out, and adhered to consistently.

Speechless

Hope you managed to get her on the plane

Sometimes a hug is huge in a scenario like this Says a lot more than making someones life hell

And what do you do after you hug here and she's still smirking and refusing to budge?

Frogmarching would work perfectly well. However, it seems like the OP has managed to get her in the car, and is on her way. I hope they have a lovely holiday, 12yo included; and when they get back some very firm ground rules are laid out, and adhered to consistently

This. Resorting to making her life hell is inappropriate for one incident at the beginning of a holiday, however bad she normally is. If you set the boundaries and stick to them she will start to learn.

FWIW, I was a total nightmare at 12. Fine before and fine after. But for the 6-12 months before I started my periods probably had my mum tearing her hair out. I'm almost certain I refused to do stuff at the last minute on more than one occasion. Probably because my hair wasn't right or my top/trousers were wrong so I wasn't going. I'm not sure what removing all my possessions and making my life hell would have achieved other than cementing my belief that the whole world hated me. It certainly wouldn't have made me behave any better.

How do you know she will still be smirking? It is worth a try before making a misery of the whole week. And it sends a message of love even when like is challenging.

Those saying I wouldn't do this or no 12yo of mine would be allowed to do that, have not experienced a truly difficult teen or nearly teen. My dd is currently in a secure hospital, she has been in every type of unit there is, she has been diagnosed with bpd and also has a chromosome disorder which effects her moods and emotions. I have other children who would never behave like that, but I can see my dd1 behaving like this if she didn't want to do something.
Op- let us know what happened and if Camhs have been involved with your dd?

GOBLIN LITTLEOWL .i dont know if it was my post you were asking about if it was true .if it was i assure you it happened .my hubby physically lifted him into car .but he refused to get dressed .we went to airport .then on plain landed at CDG airport went to our gite .all his pyjamas and house coat .i am a bit mortified to think of it know but i was so angry at the time .my son was 10 at the time .lovely spongebob outfit it was .

My daughter could be utterly vile on holidays from about seven to 13. I don't know why. She's a generally polite, high-performing, clever girl. I don't what got into her. She was once so awful that I had to clench my wrists together so that I didn't push her off some high cliffs in Brittany. I can only think it was some kind of hormonal overdrive that somehow came to the fore when we were away from our normal environment.

Fortunately my husband, who can be a bit soft on our children, was well behind me on this one and she was quite small for her age so we did, if necessary, threaten to manhandle her into cars, etc. We could also work out what she really, really wanted on holiday (pony trekking, a pizza out, some bag from a tourist shop) and use it as a huge bribe for good behaviour.

She seemed to grow out of it. Chin up, OP. She's actually much easier as a mid-teens person than she was pre-teen. I think she's tried it all on earlier in life and is ready to cooperate now.

Hope you have managed to get on holiday and the situation has calmed down somewhat. I've had a difficult teen and two really good ones, no difference in upbringing.
If you have gotten away, I would try to have a good time, do seek some help when you get back though.

Grow a spine and a pair of balls.. You are the adult not some bratty 12 year old child.
She goes either the easy way or the hard way. But she is going.
You need to deal with little madam now. Good luck with the teen years when she is wild, cos she knows you will do nothing.
What wS the sanction for wasting a lot of money on wasted lessons?

And it sends a message of love even when like is challenging

So what do you do after the message of love, if she is still smirking and refusing to budge?

fun I know you were crying out for a quick response but when you get back if you feel like posting about where to go from here try Teenagers (not AIBU.)

There you will get help from people who have experienced the worst of the worst and will advise and not judge.