Quick Advice DD2 refusing to go on holiday...

[fun1nthesun]

We need to leave now! dd2 has decided she isn't going (12 years old). Leaving her with relatives/friends isn't an option. She has form for sudden refusals, and in fact we lost £££ the last time she demanded to do expensive lessons and then changed her mind after we had given the money.

Any suggestions? Our holiday is ruined

But why is she behaving like this? OP says she has form for sudden refusals, has anyone tried to establish why this is? Of course she may just be a spoilt little madame who is over indulged, gets her own way and is playing on it but there could be underlying issues.

Ds3 often asks to do things but once we have organised it and payed for it "changes his mind". We push ahead and he usually gets on fine but it's almost as if he really wants something but when it comes to the crunch, gets anxious and panics, fears he can't do it or won't cope so tries to dig his heels in.

Are you flying? Has she flown before? Could she be scared? Is there something about the holiday that could be frightening her. Could she be smiling and saying she's spoilt it for everyone to save face because she can't voice her real feelings. Are there any other behaviours at school or at home that give cause for concern.

I do think you need to get her in the car and go at this point but I do think, rather than metaphorically "beating it out of her" you do need to take time to get to the bottom of her behaviour. Something is happening in her life to cause this. It is not normal, happy 12 year old behaviour.

I'm so glad that the OP has gone, as it means they all have. OP: I hope you've had a good holiday I spite of the rocky start!

holiday I'd make it clear that it wasn't up for discussion an they had 10 minutes to get themselves dressed and into the car or they were going to be carried down in whatever they were wearing. And then do it. That I don't have a problem with.

What I wouldn't be doing is going of of my way to carry that one incident over to the whole holiday and be going out of my way to make everyday of her holiday the most miserable day ever and then removing everything she owned from her room, including the door when she got back, regardless of how good or bad any of her subsequent behaviour was. Because there really is no incentive to behave or change her behaviour at that point because she as nothing left to lose at that point, so may as well do as she likes.

I have reported that post, as I think it constitutes a personal attack

No, I was being quite measured actually. Would you really ruin your own holiday and that of your DH and siblings just to get back at a 12 year old? There's no way the rest of the family would enjoy themselves if you were conducting yourself the way you describe. Or maybe you wouldn't care about spoiling everyone's holiday just as long as you got revenge on your DD.

I think I agree with isthisanacidtest.
I'd be harsh because this is behaviour I would only ever want to discipline my child once for. So it would have to make an impact. I wouldn't like to ruin my own holiday for it though!

When ds was younger he did something really bad and I rained firey hell on him. He was 6 or 7 and was allowed no toys, no TV, no nothing except non-picture books. He had to stay by my side, literally, for two whole weeks. Even when I went to the loo, he had to wait for me in the hall. He had to call his dad, grandparents etc and explain to them what he had done (the hardest part of the punishment for him) and he had to write letters to his teacher and the kids in school involved.
He had to earn back his toys.

You must nip horrendous behaviour like this in the bud immediately or you're in for a world of trouble down the line. If the other kids are younger (I assume they are) don't let them get to the stage your 12yo is at!

You say she's used to the bribery, well it obviously doesn't work then. She knows you'll back down and give back whatever she's lost. She has no reason to do anything you want and will continue to manipulate you. I agree with the getting tough option, either she gets in the car now or you get the bin bags and take everything away. Unless you're serious OP, her behaviour isn't going to change. The fact she's smug and enjoys ruining things for her family just shows that she knows she has the power. You need to be in control here, you're the parent. You're going to get her in the car 'gently'? I imagine doing gently and cajoling her is part of the problem.

Get her in the car/on the plane, stop bribing her! Jeez this is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read. How are you allowing yourself to be dictated to by a 12yo.

Lots of people advocating putting her in the car, none explaining how to do it. I suppose you could punch her on the forehead just hard enough to leave her dizzy and disoriented, then she wouldn't be able to kick and punch back as you drag her to the cars. Or maybe punch her in the kidneys, the pain should render her incapable of speech or action for long enough.

(Not actually advocating any of this, just speculating on how to achieve the objective.)

I'm with isthisanacidtest and Stratter5 all the way.

We've got 2 teens (19.5 and 17.5). We've never got to the stage where they have refused to do anything or go anywhere that we have spent money on. They aren't angels, but they wouldn't dare because they know the consequences wouldn't be worth it.

If I had a 12 yo who was dictating to me what they were doing, when they were doing it and how I would be wondering just where I had gone wrong. I would be removing everything from their rooms, including their door, until they showed me that they could behave better.

From previous experience of Mumsnet, I know I have to point out that my last post was meant to be satirical.

My teenage dd has things she doesn't want to do as a family, that's normal. What is not normal is refusing family holidays. We have sat down and agreed what things we don't expect her to join in with, for example watching a sibling doing a routine activity. She stays home for those. If a sibling is in a school play or a football match that isn't routine training then she is expected to watch.
Because we have had the discussion she's happy with what she has to do and wouldn't miss those for anything which is useful as they are not negotiable.
Tell your dd she is coming, get her in the car and go. Don't remove stuff from her room as you want home to be a place where she is happy to be and can be comfortable leaving and coming back to.

What does she think will happen if she does go on holiday? Is she scared of something?

Rafa, yes that's how I would hope to handle it and I do understand your point that if the child is left with nothing, there is no incentive to behave etc.
I think in this situation however the OP has let the child's behaviour get so out of control that Isitanacid strong tactics were to enable the parent to regain the power.
The back story would probably reveal where the problems started and how they could be resolved. I do hope the OP and the child manage to have an enjoyable holiday and perhaps a big hug is called for?

Fraidy I was considering choloroform myself.

OP .i understand your position .but if she has no learning difficulties .she would get put in car and tough if she does,nt like it .the reason i am saying this is because i have an autistic son .high functioning but autistic all the same .he hates being out of his enviroment . but i am sorry my holidays is the one thing where there is no comprimise .i have had him sit in the apartment for a couple of days .i don,t mind i just plonk myself on balcony .and the rest of family go out to pool or site seeing .but he comes round eventually .on so much foriegn tv any one can take even him .sorry but at 12 .you are the adult so she goes .

Cate it's not about revenge at all.

I believe it is my duty as a parent to teach my children how to behave. She has not behaved and there will be consequences.

She doesn't want to go on the holiday - fine she won't go. But it won't be pandering to her and giving in.

And yes given that she has sat and smirked and gloated that she's ruining the holiday there will be consequences. Big ones. And she won't like them.

What's the alternative? Send an entitled, badly behaved little madam out into the world to do the same on other people?

Actually, the fact that OP has previous for bribing her and it not working implies that she hasn't had respect from her dd in a while.

She's twelve. I wouldn't be bribing my children to do anything, I would be telling them!

I don't mean being a dictator or getting a kick out of the power I have. But if we, as their parents, decide to spend hard earned cash on a holiday and madam decides she's not going, there would be no bribery involved.

There would, however, be an ultimatum.

Get in the car or I'll put you in the car and if it comes to that, you'll be sorry.

I make no apologies for that. There are times when you do have to take control as a parent!

I bet if OP did, just once, what its suggests, her precious daughter would be sprinting to the car in the future.

i took my son to france in his pyjamas and house coat once .through airport security and all . he was going like it or lump it .

I like lying's approach to the holiday.

I have strict but fair parents. I'd be giving the 12 year old the choice of a holiday with us with decent attitude or a week with grandparents.

She sounds very stubborn.

Is this really true?

When ds was younger he did something really bad and I rained firey hell on him. He was 6 or 7 and was allowed no toys, no TV, no nothing except non-picture books. He had to stay by my side, literally, for two whole weeks. Even when I went to the loo, he had to wait for me in the hall. He had to call his dad, grandparents etc and explain to them what he had done (the hardest part of the punishment for him) and he had to write letters to his teacher and the kids in school involved.
He had to earn back his toys

I can't think of anything a 6/7 year old could have done to warrant a punishment of this severity. I am pretty strict with my boys but work on the premise that there is nothing so bad that they can't tell me about it and that only by telling me the whole truth can I sort things out. If I had punished them like that at 7 I think they would have learnt it was best if I never found out about their misdemeanours.

I think some of you who are saying your DC would never (or have never) behaved in this way and are attributing this to your no nonsense parenting might be deluding yourselves. It might actually be down to pure luck i.e. your child's basic nature. Time and again I've seen siblings who have been raised the same but they display completely different - and often very challenging - behaviour.

I have a lovely, well-behaved 10yo DD (who know what the teen years will bring?) before anyone suggests I have issues. I am one of four siblings though and we are very different characters.

Wow OP your parenting and your DD are getting a real pasting here.

There must be a huge backstory to how you ended up with this situation, and I think that is something that you need to look into when you are back from holiday.

Like other have said if she rules the roost now, you will have real problems when she is older.

I hope you have managed to set off and have a good holiday.

I agree wholeheartedly with Cinderella.

I assume you are now en route but, when you get back, you need to have a long hard look at what is going on here.

You haven't given much info about your DD but what you have given, i.e. form for refusing to do things/go places at the last minute, made me think immediately of my DDs who have AS.

We've had many occasions when they have wanted to do thing, go places, take lessons, join groups, etc but when the time came, anxiety took over and they couldn't do it.

Holidays are similar. My DD2 looks forward to going away but just leaving for a weekend in a familiar place can have her hiding in her bedroom, unable to come out. She just calmly sits there saying she is not going.

We had no idea either had AS until DD1 was 12 and started refusing to attend school. Autism was so far off my radar that it took a 2 hour conversation with a psychologist to make me even consider it. He was right.

Behaviour caused by AS can often make the child appear to be very selfish and spoiled and, if I were to describe the behaviour I have encountered from my DDs on here, there would be lots of similar comments about putting our foot down and not letting the child be in charge.

As for just putting her in the car - well how many people on here have tried that with a 12 year old? We made the enormous mistake once of trying to force DD1 onto the school bus. We quickly realised that it was far too dangerous and vowed never to try it again. I would never suggest that anyone else tried it.

Google Tony Attwood and girls with Asperger's and see whether any of what you see fits your DD. If it does you need to ask for an assessment so that she can get the support and understanding that will enable her to overcome her fear or transitions and unknown situations otherwise she is going to be restricted in what she can achieve as she gets older.

Cate - DS exhibited very challenging behaviour in his teens. Would you like me to elucidate exactly what he did? Or is it acceptable that I say he exhibited very challenging behaviour?

He's in his 20's now, and at uni and working part time to fund it.

I do have experience.

This has caused me to remember an incident a few years back; plane boarding, last quite large group of one woman and assorted teens got on with a lot of noise and fussing and took their seats in a couple of rows near front.Crew start to close doors and we have a slot for take off when one teen boy jumped up and started shouting that he wasn't going, he was getting off. Much arguing and shouting ensued. Steward said he had to inform the Captain as they were not able to carry a passenger against their will.
The boy was not a child of the woman, it transpired, but a friend. Captain said he had to leave the plane and the woman must go with him as Captain could not abandon him at the airport. Woman refused to get off. Phone calls were made and Captain spoke to relative of the boy who said he would be responsible for meeting him at airport.
Woman now shrieking and cussing and other teens joining in.
Now his bag has to be located and removed. Woman said not possible as other people had their stuff in his bag too. More shouting and screeching...
I won't go on. Obviously we missed our slot, and several more slots.
If OP is travelling by plane she may not be able to force DD to go, if she has not calmed down.

I take it op has managed to get away, I hope so.

Jesus! There's just no way I'd allow a 12 year old to threaten a family holiday, or anything else on that level.
I'm all for allowing children to have a voice and make their own choices, within reason but no way would I have what op just had this morning.
Where are the days when children were grateful for and appreciated a holiday?
Fwiw - I'd have put her in the car in Pj's too.
Hope you manage to enjoy your holiday OP and hope you can sort out dd attitude and behaviour on your return.