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AIBU?

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Original poster

Quick Advice DD2 refusing to go on holiday...

490 replies

fun1nthesun · 09/08/2014 09:05

We need to leave now! dd2 has decided she isn't going (12 years old). Leaving her with relatives/friends isn't an option. She has form for sudden refusals, and in fact we lost £££ the last time she demanded to do expensive lessons and then changed her mind after we had given the money.

Any suggestions? Our holiday is ruined Sad

OP posts:
FoxSticks · 09/08/2014 10:09

I completely agree with Cinderella too.

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:10

I have a son in his twenties and a 15 year old.

I have never had this problem. And trust me, DS could be hard work in his teens. But I have NEVER had this problem.

Oh and they're good, well adjusted kids. DS is at uni and DD is on target for decent GCSE grades. They have lots of friends and don't appear to be emotionally damaged.

I have done the remove everything from the room. Out into the bin as it happens. Only ever had to do it once.

I resent being called unhinged because I would deal with obnoxious nasty behaviour in a firm and consistent way. I have reported that post, as I think it constitutes a personal attack.

CinderellaRockefeller · 09/08/2014 10:11

One thing I do agree with is that if you aren't getting g her to move then one parent goes with the other children and one stays put with her. Take away the power for ruining it for her siblings.

UptheChimney · 09/08/2014 10:11

I suppose I start to wonder just how it gets to this with a 12 year old ...

Stratter5 · 09/08/2014 10:12

Two adults should be able to manage a 12yo. And yes, I too would be putting her in the car in her pyjamas. Both of mine have been to school in their nightclothes, it only takes one time of having to get ready on the journey, or suffer the indignity of getting out at school wearing pyjamas.

There might not necessarily be a reason for it. Some children really are simply manipulative little shits, simply because they can. She's the future version of all the hideous, manipulative (think bethcutler's) MILs we are all shocked by. This is how they are made, by early realisation that simply being unpleasant reaps it's own rewards.

Those rewards now need to be tough love, as opposed to getting her own way.

noddyholder · 09/08/2014 10:13

Your language sounds a bit unhinged though more hysterics will fuel,this situation not calm it

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:15

I might swear on here, but that does NOT mean I'd be anything other than icy calm in front of the child.

I'd be so angry they'd be quivering at a look. It would simply be

"That's fine. No holiday. Your choice."

And I'd turn off the router, lock front and back doors, and get into the room and start removing stuff.

pluCaChange · 09/08/2014 10:16

It's important for her to understand that the more she "refuses" in life, the more she will fail (exams, jobs, etc.). She will become more and more marginalised, never gain the power and freedom she seems of a character to crave. At the extreme, she may end up losing even her physical liberty (e.g. sectioned for self-harm, imprisoned for crime, or being "tagged" and having a curfew).

Chippednailvarnish · 09/08/2014 10:16

Stratters5 & isthisanacidtest you're both spot on.
On the basis that the OP hasn't mentioned any SN, the DD is just being difficult and nasty, for which there is no excuse (I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to make some for her though).

Holidayfun · 09/08/2014 10:19

Isthisanacid description of how to parent would be horrendous in any other situation and I would hope I NEVER have to resort to such strong tactics. However, in this situation, where a child is deliberately causing stress and upset and then smiling about it, something massive has to change. Isthisanacid is correct in that you probably only have a small window of opportunity to correct this behaviour as by 16, god only knows what she'll be like. I would go with everything Isthisanacid has recommended, with the chance to earn her stuff back and I mean earn.
I would do this as much for her as anyone else in the family, she simply will not be able to function happily in the outside world with such a warped idea of how to behave. I would also consider talking to my GP and cahms in case there is something other than just being indulged and spoilt causing the problems.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 09/08/2014 10:21

And by the end of her time with me she'd never dare step an inch out of line ever ever again.

Really, or is your behaviour so vindictive and you've gone so overboard that you've given her nothing to lose so she may as well behave badly and get revenge as behave well.

I mean let's face it, if you're hormonally charged pre-teen whose own mother is determined to ruin your entire holiday because you threw a strop and refused to go and good behaviour isn't going to earn you any of your privileges back, the least you can do is make sure everyone else is going to have as miserable a time as you are having.

Waltermittythesequel · 09/08/2014 10:21

I'm Shock at this.

And you sound so helpless!

How did it get to this point with a fucking 12 year old??

I swear, there'd be nothing left in her room bar a mattress and a lightbulb. Nothing.

And, when you get back OP, you really need to start making changes.

Any child who feels like they can dictate what the family does and then feel pleased that they're ruined a holiday, needs to be taken in hand sharpish.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 09/08/2014 10:23

She has to go on holiday with you and that's the end of it... BUT you can tell her that whilst this bit is not negotiable, she has control of what happens next:

OPTION 1:
Carry on behaving the way she is and on your return, you will remove everything from her bedroom, all privileges and she will be grounded - and no contact with her friends, phone, laptop, whatever she has...
or
OPTION 2:
She makes the decision to rejoin the family and behave like a member of it, being helpful, cheerful and appreciative of what she has. If she has sadness over something, she can come and talk to you about it - she cannot veto the holiday, that's a given.

Poor you, OP. I feel for you. The rage is terrible and seems neverending,

Bakeoffcakes · 09/08/2014 10:23

Love Catgirls idea of telling her you will film her being put in the car by her Dad, then putting it on FB!

I expect that would get her moving!

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:24

Rafa - I would probably have sent everyone else on holiday and kept her with me at home. And made being at home really unpleasant. And every time she opened her mouth - she'd be met with "this is what you wanted. you didn't want to go on holiday"

But mine would never have dared behave like this - there's something so manipulative and vindictive and just pure nasty about being determined - for the SECOND TIME - to ruin a holiday for everyone else.

She needs sorted. Now. And I just would love to know what on earth has been happening up to now that a 12 year old got this much power.

VirtualPointyHat · 09/08/2014 10:25

I have a sister like your DD,exactly the same behaviour, my sister always cajoled her along and told us it was just DSis being DSis.

She is now 25 and has a DD of her own, DM and DDad still do everything for her.

I was in therapy for a while over it, she ruined my graduation.

She wonders why she was the only one of mine and DH's DSis to not be a bridesmaid.

You need to nip this in the bud now, before it splits your whole family

noddyholder · 09/08/2014 10:27

But she is using making people life hell as a tool to dictate things and if you do that back you are playing her at her own game. If it was me I would take a completely different approach to her not act just like her

Holidayfun · 09/08/2014 10:28

Rafa, what would you do in this situation? Presuming you had tried all the encouraging and cajoling, if you had a child smirking and smug that they had already ruined the holiday.

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:29

Noddy - we're all different, and I get that you would do it differently.

But I'd be much more nasty than she is - no way would I give a 12 year old that amount of power. She's a child. She needs to know her place in the pecking order.

I hold the power over a 12 year old and she'd know it. But then if she was mine, she'd already know it and I wouldn't be having to do this at 12.

noddyholder · 09/08/2014 10:32

Maybe she does know her place in the pecking order? I agree we are all different My mother took the aggressive extreme approach in every situation without considering alternatives and it was a nightmare

hercules1 · 09/08/2014 10:33

If dd said this, we'd all just laugh. There would bd no discussion or debate, bribery or blackmail. She would be going and that's that (and do it with a happy face). How on earth do you get to this state where a 12 year old has this sort of power?
I really thought you would be posting about a 17 year old.

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:34

I wouldn't be aggressive. You misunderstand. I am swearing on here but no way would I do that in front of the child.

I would never have let it get to a situation where a 12 year old held the power over a whole family. That is just unacceptable.

Is that what you did Noddy? I doubt it! I would be more than surprised if your examples of behaviour that led to your mother being aggressive and extreme included refusing to get in the car and smirking about wrecking everyone's holiday

Holidayfun · 09/08/2014 10:36

I would hope that mutual respect and love would mean my child would not behave in this way, not power and pecking order. I was brought up by a powerful mother and although we are very close now, I resented the power struggle.
However, my DC is still young and so I haven't yet been hit with the terrible teen years.

isthisanacidtest · 09/08/2014 10:38

Rarely have I had to "pull rank" - I can count the number of times on the fingers of one hand, with both kids together.

They are loved and there is mutual respect in my house - but I would have nipped this in the bud long ago.

Good luck OP. I hope you're off on holiday and she's had an attitude shift.

Thenapoleonofcrime · 09/08/2014 10:38

I think it very much depends on the child if these kind of escalation tactics would work.

I don't think you would have to go as far as taking the door off the hinges and removing all property to make a 12 year old be respectful, if they are NT and just getting a bit big for their boots. In our house, I've explained that we all have to co-operate, get on, go to things that are paid for,help with chores- otherwise, all the benefits that go along with living with a family, mum to drive you places, pocket money, treats out with friends, internet and phone access will also disappear. I also feel too tired and fed up if people are stroppy and leads me to not want to bother to do extra things/buy them stuff/go out of my way for their activities and friends.

If I got to the door removing stage, I would be worried that actually my teen was more out of control than I thought and perhaps had mh/oppositional defiance disorder. The type of children I know who have been like this don't give a monkey's if they are pulled out of school, excluded, or living like a monk at home- they run away, truant and so on.

In this instance, I think everyone has it spot on- put your foot down and get her in the car by the means of dire threats. I don't think I could pick up my 10 year old, let alone a 12 year old and a child this manipulative might well tell the teachers/police if you assaulted/hurt her in this act. Once on holiday, I'd lay it on the line- if you are nice, we do nice things, if you are not nice, we don't do such nice things (stay in room, not go to water park and so on). Quite simple.

She is probably all bluster and enjoying watching you dance. If you start doing things like taking the door off its hinges or hauling her into the street, you are feeding the drama and her sense of victim-hood will only grow. For very challenging teens, who are physically strong and strong willed, I just don't think treating them like boot camp and continually lambasting them with nasty messages like how they have ruined the holiday is the way to go- the teens who are basically ok but a lot of bluster will be overwhelmed, and the ones with issues will up their own game and the consequence may be well-beyond holiday refusal.