Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

born if you do have sons please don't pass on your gender stereotypes to them will you.

Both men and women are capable of ogling and both do look at porn.

This thread is getting more and more silly. Think I am out.

Just would love the bloke and the guard to post.

the man did nothing wrong, yet has had some vile stuff said about him

When you provide proper evidence of that do come and show us.

Yes women do oggle but in my small experience anyway, its usually men who like breasts.

BornFree so its better we think the poor bloke was a pervert / mygiost because we havent got evidence that proves he isnt?

god your hyproctise disgusts me so we must consider the man guilty of some pretty horrid things without evidence but we cant say dont condemn him without evidence thank fuck you arnt in charge of our legal system

Er the evidence is in her posts.

Unfortunately there is no video evidence as this is just an internet chat site.

Sorry if you are confused here.

When you provide proper evidence of that do come and show us.

And where is your proof that he did.

But hey apparently it's ok to call him a pervett and mysogenist just because he didn't move

I understand how frazzled you must have felt travelling but to be honest you didn't have a right to expect another passenger to move to accommodate you. It would have nice of him to move, but he was under no obligation to do so and he's not a bad person just because he said no.

I understand that BF in public takes some getting used to, I think this is the issue, not uncooperative passengers. I don't mean to scold you, but I can see the man feeling railroaded by your reaction. If the passenger had been a woman, would you have been more comfortable and therefore wouldn't have asked her to move? Quite likely, so in reality what you were saying to this man was "you are a man and because of that I don't want you near me when I'm BF" that's really the message implicit in your request. Basically he is guilty of being male (so automatically a potential letch) and in the seat next to you. Not very fair to him really is it.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm not trying to be I'm just suggesting a different perspective. I know many women dislike using a cover when BF, but it might be your best option until you feel more comfortable BF in public.

Basically he is guilty of being male (so automatically a potential letch) and in the seat next to you. Not very fair to him really is it.

It depends on how he acted.

If he was a really leery letch, would have been ok to ask him to move then?

I went out to lunch today. A woman was breastfeeding her baby, also about seven months...I smiled indulgently. She smiled back. Smiles all round. Nobody hurried around to give her privacy. Quite possibly my indulgent gaze could have been interpreted as Filthy Leering, mind.

BornFree so its better we think the poor bloke was a pervert / mygiost because we havent got evidence that proves he isnt?

But the op says he was being leery to her and she felt uncomfortable. Perhaps a different man would have provoked a different response in her.

EarthWindFire my question about the pregnant woman was in response to Thebodyloveschocolateandwine ...to me asking someone to shift because you choose to do something is rude.

I don't see how you can compare starting to bf on a post natal ward to wanting to bf privately on a public train.
Breast feeding on a postnatal ward with the curtains open at visiting time when the people on the beds either side had their partners, both sets of GP's, various aunties, uncles, siblings etc crammed all around my bed and sitting on the chair next to my bed is probably the most similar experience I have had to breastfeeding on a train at a table seat with strangers sat on the other seats.
I reiterate the OP wanted more privacy not to bf privately there is a difference, she didn't ask the whole carriage to move for her to feed privately.
There were empty seats, nobody on this thread knows if they were booked or not.
I travel on trains a lot and have moved out of a booked seat to let someone in need sit, I have had people move for me to sit. I have been unable to sit in my booked seat because the train before was delayed, there were not enough carriages and the ticket inspector announced bookings were void.

Maybe if you were eyeing her breasts in a leery way, she wouldn't have smiled so sweetly back?

Not sooooooo she could have moved to said empty seat.

Maybe if you were eyeing her breasts in a leery way, she wouldn't have smiled so sweetly back?

Seriously!?

I would not have dreamt of making the poor man move. This is just what give women a bad name. I have often breastfed sitting on the floor of the corridor of a train. it's perfectly doable. Babies don't care.

Also how big is this baby? It's perfectly possible to breastfeed on an aisle or a window seat on one seat. ]

Also privacy? Why do you need privacy? Do you think there is something wrong with the female breast? If so get therapy don't foist your problems on an innocent passenger.

I think she thought it was leery of him to want to sit next to her feeding to be honest. If there was any evidence of his general leeriness prior to that Im sure we would have been told.

I wouldnt mind moving out of my seat to let someone sit down to feed their baby, but i would mind moving from a seat so they could have two. Ive moved seats before because someone was sniffing and getting on my nerves then got turfed out of that seat as it was booked.

There is no evidence whatsoever that theman was leering and ogling. The OP embarrassed him publicly by asking if he was going to watch. It sounds as though he was humiliated and mortified.

She then stated on her when she didn't get the peptides she wanted that he was a pervert and a misogynist. Vile, unfounded allegations. MNHQ then condoned that. I think that's vile as well. I didn't get a reply to my report though some others did and MNHQ said the OP's appalling post could stand.
When I pointed out on another thread that I was disappointed I was encouraged to email MNHQ with my concerns which I did. Two days later I haven't had a reply.

Replies not peptides of course.

Also privacy? Why do you need privacy?
I can't speak for the OP but in my case with DC1 I felt judged by everyone for being a teenage parent, I had heard horror stories of people being thrown out of places and called names for feeding in public and did not want any further judging. When I tried to feed in public I felt everyone was watching and judging, I felt sick and panicky and just couldn't do it. I was actually very ill with depression.

I am sorry you felt that way - but, as you say yourself, you were ill. And very young. And listening to other people's horror stories.

People are mainly nice about breastfeeding, I've found.

Bornfree: But the op says he was being leery to her and she felt uncomfortable. Perhaps a different man would have provoked a different response in her.

Read the original post -WHERE does she mention that the man was being leery to her? She wrote that he was being nasty & snarly and that the THOUGHT of him watching her BF was awful. She is clearly not comfortable BF in front of strangers -well let's be clear, male strangers. That's her problem and the man, whilst being uncooperative and hostile was never accused of being leery. She had no way of knowing that he would even look at her while she BF, she just got worked up imagining it. Again, not fair to him.

I can't get over the negativity on this thread. YANBU, the man was a tosser. I suggest that, on the return journey, instead of asking the person sitting next to you if they would move, you find the train guard and ask him/her to show you to an area where you can breastfeed. They will either help you out, or if not, you can be shocked but polite and ask how nursing mothers are expected to feed their babies in such cramped conditions.

I completely understand your reservations about nursing next to that guy. With my DC2 I was reasonably confident at being able to feed discreetly in public, but with DC1 I was a bit of a fumbling wreck (plus, DC1 would pop on and off, sometimes screaming intermittently) and would spend most of my time with my boob hanging out! Having a stranger sat right next to me would have made it 100 times worse. So I never fed her in public.

At the very least, perhaps you could take an item of clothing on the train (e.g. a big summer scarf or cardi) that would give you a bit of coverage if you have to feed in front of everyone? I don't at all think that nursing mothers should cover up, but perhaps it would make you feel a bit more relaxed.

I can't get over the negativity on this thread. YANBU, the man was a tosser.

The negativity was mostly after the vile comments that the OP made about the man. Apparently that is ok.

The OP wasn't unreasonable to ask the man to change seats.

The man wasn't unreasonable to stay put, although a possibly bit ungracious (depending on his reasons).

The OP was unreasonable to not accept his decision and to make an issue of it once he'd said no.

The OP is being unreasonable in expecting trains to change their policies and make the provisions she wants.

The OP is being totally unreasonable and disgraceful to accuse the man of being a pervert just because he wouldn't comply with her demands.

you find the train guard and ask him/her to show you to an area where you can breastfeed.

Where? The loo? Discretely behind the driver? Hiding behind the counter in the buffet car?

It is the nature of trains that they are generally constructed to fit in as many seats as possible and those seats will generally be in use. Planning on being able to rearrange the other people in the carriage doesn't seem very practical.

I thought the suggestion earlier of buying a family rail ticket was good, and presumably you can book a double seat.