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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

999 replies

Paulala · 07/08/2014 23:11

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

OP posts:
SeagullsAndSand · 12/08/2014 16:07

Sorry playing musical chairs isn't what people pay for on trains or planes.We don't know his story.He may have wanted to work,not been great moving around on a moving train of simply not wanted to.No reason is unreasonable.

If privacy is so crucial to op she should have planned better,not hard.The world doesn't collapse when you have a bf baby to feed.Some of us have bf two at once.

middlings · 12/08/2014 16:08

I've read the first hundred posts so am probably just answering the original point but, YABU. Sorry.

And I say that as "crazy breastfeeder."

I probably would have asked if I could swap to a window seat if I didn't already have one but that is just as DD2 had a horrible tendency to pull away to see what the interesting noise was and I wouldn't have fancied her getting whacked by a bag/elbow/snack cart if the train jolted and she was feeding on the aisle side.

Breastfeeding doesn't require any more privacy than any other sort of feeding. Particularly with a seven month old who (generally) can get themselves to the right spot without assistance.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 16:10

He wasn't leering or ogling but just sat there.

Those accusations are disgraceful.

This is a parenting site with men posting too.

Very insulting to all men. Especially galling to goose of us with husbands and sons.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:11

Breastfeeding doesn't require any more privacy than any other sort of feeding

well squashed up against a leering and oggling man this op thought it was.

middlings · 12/08/2014 16:13

Sorry - should point out, if my request to move out of an aisle seat had been refused, I'd have though the person to be a bit uncharitable (so long as they were in the whole of their health and I hadn't asked to inconvenience someone with a hidden disability) but I would have coped by sitting sideways in the seat or something. Not a big deal, and no point getting upset [shrug].

EarthWindFire · 12/08/2014 16:13

I wish posters would stop calling the man names!

No one has anything to say he was any of those things and quite frankly it is not ok to keep saying he was ogling or leery when there is no evidence that he was.

EarthWindFire · 12/08/2014 16:14

Cross post with thebody Smile

SeagullsAndSand · 12/08/2014 16:14

Some cultures feel uncomfortable with unaccompanied women sitting next to men,some teenage girls will feel uncomfortable sitting next to men.Are men having paid extortionately priced tickets supposed to jump up and move every time somebody feels they don't like them next to them? Nobody on packed British trains act so entitled- if seat occupation is so important people generally plan ahead.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:14

Those accusations are disgraceful

The body you may not have come across men who do leer and oggle, I have.

The accusations are only disgraceful if they are not true and I am going to take ops word that he was an unpleasant man and he was leering at her.

I too goose DH and sons and brothers and fathers.

Indeed, I would not feel comfortable feeding with my Father or my Brother sat next to me, and nor my FIL who has oggled me whilst feeding.

I would feel comfortable with many male friends, and indeed have fed with them present and my DH some other male relatives.

Some men do oggle The Body.

SeagullsAndSand · 12/08/2014 16:18

Oh get over yourself,most men couldn't give a shiny shit if a woman bfs.It's hardly world news.

merrymouse · 12/08/2014 16:19

At what point did the man get a chance to leer or oggle?

EarthWindFire · 12/08/2014 16:20

The body you may not have come across men who do leer and oggle, I have.

The OP only called the man vile names after many posters had said YABU.

In her OP she openly says she asked him if he was going to watch - making assumptions about him.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:23

she openly says she asked him if he was going to watch

Yes, I imagine she said that in response to his oggling or leering because by this point she felt uncomfortable with him.

I think he acted in such a way, as to prompt that response.

middlings · 12/08/2014 16:24

*Breastfeeding doesn't require any more privacy than any other sort of feeding

well squashed up against a leering and oggling man this op thought it was.*

BornFree after your response I went back and read all the OP's posts and I see precisely NO evidence that he was leering and oggling. She calls him a pervert and misogynist but does so with no evidence at all! He was clearly a bit inconsiderate (would it have hurt him just to help another human being out?!) but she also quite clearly reacted disproportionately, IMHO.

As an aside, loving the fact that HQ have acknowledged it was a PFB moment Grin.

SeagullsAndSand · 12/08/2014 16:25

Oggling and leering is a very serious accusation to make.

The vast maj of men are quite normal members of society.To presume all oggle and leer because of their gender is stereotyping and sexist.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:26

Its hard for her to provide evidence isn't it, without video footage.

worridmum · 12/08/2014 16:27

so if the man had moved and then got a fine for traveling without a vaild ticket (And yes not sitting in your desigrnated seat invaildates your ticket) would the man be unreasonable to demend that the BF OP pay the fine.

And i expect that the OP wouldnt pay the fine for him as she does sound very very entitled

EarthWindFire · 12/08/2014 16:27

And hard for people to say he did, but it's ok to keep labelling him though and calling him horrid names...

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:29

Oggling and leering is a very serious accusation to make

I suspect she made it because she felt him to be leery.

To presume all oggle and leer because of their gender is stereotyping and sexist

Yes perhaps my view is coloured having been leered at and oggled quite a bit and having some male ogglers in the family... Also the fact that men think about sex more frequently than women, more likely to view porn etc.

Buts thats another thread. Grin

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 16:31

so if the man had moved and then got a fine for traveling without a vaild ticket

If she had asked me to move, I would have done, if I saw a ticket man coming I would move back to my seat. If the ticket man saw me in another seat I would explain why I moved.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 16:31

It's a very upsetting thread really.

My dds and dh wouldn't dream of moving seats as they think bf is perfectky normal and wouldn't be interested anyway.

If asked they would think it very strange behaviour and of course no sensible person would move from a booked seat.

Anyone who would doesn't travel by train a lot as I suspect is the case with some posters.

To op only accused the man after he refused to move.
Not in her first posts so that's untrue boney sorry but it is.
Her comments were horrible

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 16:32

Fuck!!!! Dss not dds

middlings · 12/08/2014 16:34

Actually, her OP is quite articulate so I would have thought she was perfectly able to give an example or two. Her post where she called him a pervert was written when she was clearly upset and doesn't provide any extra information. Yes, she says he was looking at her breasts but at that stage she was clearly upset and therefore sensitive and if he was sitting, and she was standing, it's perfectly possible they were at eye height!! So I can't come close to accepting he was a pervert.

She should have just got on with it. He should have behaved like a considerate member of the human race. No one was a winner here really.

BreconBeBuggered · 12/08/2014 16:34

I've been ogled plenty at other times, but there's something deeply unappealing about my breasts when they're in a greying maternity bra, all swollen and drippy with milk. I can't quite think why the oglers kept their eyes to themselves on those occasions. Perhaps it's a bit of a niche thing.
In all seriousness, though, I've spent five or six years of my life BF-ing, and always found it more upsetting if somebody got up and walked away to 'give me privacy'/avoid unwelcome visual encounters. That doesn't mean the OP should feel the same way, but I've always found that if you ask politely for help, most reasonable people are willing to put themselves out.

Will there be a new thread for the return journey?

thereturnofshoesy · 12/08/2014 16:34

tbh this thread is vile
the op was BU
the man did nothing wrong, yet has had some vile stuff said about him.
and the women at MNHQ just giggled.

so much for being for "parents"