Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

Yabu

I totally get that some of you wouldn't move. I really struggle with the fact that so many of you seem proud that you would not have moved.

Here's one way of looking at it. A woman with a breastfeeding baby is a dyad that is in some contexts treated as one person, in some is two. Basically, crudely speaking, the resources allocated tend to be for one person (reasonably enough - a small baby will not sit on a seat alone, or eat an adult 3 course meal at a wedding) but in other cases the resources needed for the dyad approximate more closely to those required by two persons. Society should be understanding and kind to this, although the baby part of the dyad is not able to contribute as an independent adult (will not buy its own seat, will not chip in to a restaurant bill) because otherwise you force the woman who is the other part of the dyad to lose out constantly.

Being understanding of and flexible towards children, beyond their ability to materially contribute, is what society is all about and is why the family, later the village, and ultimately the state, was invented.

This should be the case regardless of the charm or charmlessness of the mother in any individual case.

Breastfeeding can make you feel exposed and vulnerable and does take up a bit of room. If so many of you are proud - actually proud - that you would not have accommodated a request for a bit of extra space in that case - that you would not have taken the humanly obvious view that this is a moment when the dyad should be treated as requiring the resources of two people although technically they may only have booked as one person - then I really have no idea what is going to become of the world or what we are all becoming. I am off to buy tins and bottled water and build a bunker because some horrific apocalypse cannot be far off.

Ok I confess I'm at ^

EH? Apocalypse?

Is this thread still going?

The proud factor is interesting.

I don't think any of us said we would be proud not to move but turning it on its head I would feel I had failed
If my dss felt they should move as. Woman was bf. They wouldn't turn a hair and neither would my dh.

Bf is completely normal and I have never in my wife circle of friends ever heard if anyone demanding privacy to feed in a public place.

Putting aside the disgraceful accusations from the op to the poor man in question and her comments to other posters who dared to dared to say she was very unreasonable, we need to treat bf as normal. As it is for millions of us world wide.

Really not totally getting your diad thing but best not overthink a perfectly normal activity.

Bf is fairly established and easy in a 7 month old where giving up your located seat on a train and potentially standing for hours on a long commute ( we have discussed the apparently empty seats in the carriage as nauseum) would be hugely hard for me or my dh.

Having a baby does not Involve the world revolving around you. There are limits.

vezzie it wasn't just a 'request for extra space'. The man only had one seat, the seat he booked. The other apparently empty seats were not his to take. They would have belonged to people at the next stops who had booked them.

It wasn't a request it was an order the mother gave to the man. Move. Mind you she refused to move herself. Hypocrisy.

A seven month old baby isn't that big. The mother didn't want a little extra space that the man happened to have handy in his pocket. She wanted all his space, the only space he had, and she demanded it, she didn't ask nicely.

The man has rights that are not superseded by the rights of the dyad.

Totally agree scarlet.

I take up the exact same amount of space BFing DS as I do having DS sitting on my knee or lying in my arms. He does not increase in size when it's feeding time and neither do I.

I think the OP got this man's back up with the attitude she took towards him and most people, when annoyed, will dig their heels in. Politeness goes a long way and if someone politely asked me if I would mind moving and I didn't mind and there was somewhere to move to, I'd say yes. If someone came to me telling me I'd need to move and I actually did mind moving and realistically there was nowhere to move to, then I'd be telling that person to do one. When I booked with cross country trains last week I was told I 'had to have' an allocated seat so in all likelihood the seats that appeared empty in the carriage were actually allocated already. The OP could have went to the guard and asked for somewhere quiet to BF and they'd have more than likely accommodated her (if they had the seats to do so) without showing up her seat mate or causing a scene.

Actually, I would expect the dyad to chip in for it's seat if the dyad was actually using both seats and expected the other person to not use any seats, the same as if the dyad took and entire meal off someone in a restaurant (or more likely vomited over it or threw it on the floor) then I would expect the dyad to pay for the meal. I wouldn't expect the dyad to pay for 2 seats when it is only using one or the pay double for a restaurant meal when it has only eaten one but when it comes to swiping stuff off people that they have paid for my willingness to accommodate the dyad is lacking.

Also, what Sacrlett said.

What the flying fuck is this dyad thing.

I bg on a plane, distracting my one older toddler while keeping an eye on my older ones.

That's the deal of parenthood.

What a total fuss and drama about a perfectly normal run if the mill activity. It's not wrapped up in some mystical veil it's getting milk into a baby.

However standing up for hours on a train is bloody hard.

Just bring with the vest and t-shirt trick is a lot less obvious than asking people to move ffs. I had to bf dd2 standing up and moving around for months (silent reflux). I followed dd1 around at groups and potty trained her while bf-ing like this.

@ dyad! What is it?

However I agree with the proud comments. It does seem so many of you are proud to say neither your nor your DH would have stood up or offered her a seat should she request it.

I also think its irrelevant what anyone thinks of whether or not the baby was well established with feeding, each person is different.

What is a dyad?

However standing up for hours on a train is bloody hard

She only asked he move whilst she fed.

I am proud that my dss see bf as a perfectly normal activity that doesn't warrant them moving away from a woman feeding as that looks very rude and judgy.

I am proud my dds see bf as a normal activity.

I am proud my kids don't have massive tantrums then they don't get their own way or someone else refuses to do what they want regardless of the concequences to the other person.

I am proud my dcs would dream of accusing strangers of being perverts.

The whole thread is just strange.

Demanding and tantruming for privacy in a public place.

It's just wierd.

In sociology a dyad is a group of 2 people.

We covered the empty seat issue as nauseum.

Only empty until they are claimed. He could have ended up seatless for hours. Been there done that.

Some of the comments on here are disgraceful.
Dare I say, even MNHQ's sugestion that this is a pfb moment is unhelpful and unfair.
OP, YWNBU.
It is impossible to feed within the confines of one seat. I have tried recently.
Out of consideration for your fellow passenger, you asked him to move from one aisle seat to another.
He was ridiculous to refuse.
At that point though, I would have just sat back down, seething, and fed as best I could. No doubt he would have moved once baby feet etc were invading his space.
Did you look for other places though?
Sometimes there is a big floor space.
And it would have been nice if YOU had been moved to first class, even temporarily. Instead, the man's selfish attitude was rewarded and no doubt he was pleased with himself.
Things may improve on the return. I recently fed my baby on one of those pull down seat things in the wheelchair space. A lady in an aisle seat could see I was struggling (I have awful back problems), insisted I took her seat and was really lovely. I managed to feed sitting next to someone else, but had to be careful of baby's feet/head, as these encroached the aisle.
This thread does NOT show MN in a good light at all.

Well pay for the dyad to have a seat then.

Good grief.

But the Body, she did say only until she had fed the baby, I have no idea where this being cast of seats for hours comes from.

catsize of course you can feed a baby on one seat.

I have fed all my 4 on trains/planes and boats standing up and seated.

It's very very commen. What a fuss.

Thanks for explanation re dyad, hadn't heard of it before.

body, you must have better trains where you are. Or smaller babies.

This thread does NOT show MN in a good light at all.

If you mean that for some it is ok to call an unknown stranger a pervert it mysogenist then I agree.

Why exactly? The OP suggests she didn't including accusing of wanting to watch her breastfeeding.

Yes the man could of moved and may have done if asked nicely. He didn't have to move.

I have a hidden disability which would mean I can't easily 'just move' would the OP have had the same rant at me?

I agree with you Cat and I think MNHQ message was really odd too, for a parenting site. Anyway no point in engaging here!