Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

vezzie, if he'd have moved he may have had to move again at the next stop. He could, if the ticket inspector was a bit enthusiastic, have been charged for an 'on the day' ticket, as he wasn't sticking to the T&Cs of the ticket he'd bought. He could have 7 kids and a wife who had spent the last 14 years BF in public and not get why OP was being precious. The issue is not with the man who was sitting in his booked and paid for seat.

I just thought the baby picture was odd... looks like the baby from the Aptimel/SMA feeding advert.

OP... I know you're NOT reading these replies but you've set breastfeeding support back...

x-insinuated with Thurlow

The man was a pervert & a misogynist who clearly got off on belittling me infront of the carriage.

OP that is way below the belt! You are making yourself look silly now.

You asked him to move, he said no so deal with it!!!!

vezzie posters aren't agreeing with the OP because they don't agree and I think the OPs last post says it all really

Another op who when faced with majority saying she is being unreasonable doesn't want actual opinions.
Why ask if you only wanted people to agree?

Agree with you lying witch

YABVVVVU, that poor man being accused of being a pervert!

It would have been far more discreet if you had just sat down and got on with it rather than make a massive fuss over it. What would you have done if the train was full?

Thanks for portraying breastfeeding mums as precious and entitled to all the people on the carriage - that really helps everyone else.

Op we all know that you're still reading the thread.

I can't spell for toffee and hadn't noticed the spelling mistake in the title but I still think she was being unreasonable and I don't think the man was being an arsehole.

He was put in an awkward position of being asked to give up his seat to sit in a non allocated seat which he stood a high chance of being turfed out of at some future point and would then have to argue with the stroppy woman or a new passenger to get back into the seat he'd paid for. Maybe he just wanted to sit and read his book or do some work or go to sleep without playing musical chairs, as is his right.

Then he was asked if he was going to watch.

arf at 'My DH would have used his body as a shield to protect you'

The thing is if the pair of them hadn't been so stubborn and just been a bit nicer this could have been so much easier.
I don't think it is wrong to ask someone to move, I don't think it's wrong to want to stay in your seat.
OP asks the man to move nicely,
Man says really sorry but I booked a seat, that seat may also be booked but I'll shove up a bit or maybe if you ask the guard then they'll help you find somewhere more private.
OP says ok, baby gets fed.
End of situation.

The competitive 'I fed triplets in front of the world' how dare you not feel like me comments are ridiculous.

Lying I thought the same thing about the photo. Also why include it? It doesn't add to the discussions and I don't think it's achieved what you wanted Op. I'm thinking you wanted people to say 'aaaw what an adorable pfb. Pfb is so cute his mum's entitled to do whatever she wants on a train'

You weren't unreasonable to ask but you were unreasonable to demand, make a scene and cast aspersions on the poor guy.

I wasn't going to get involved as it seemed everyone else had it covered but to accuse a man of being a pervert and a misogynist?! Words fail me!

Get yourself a grip and fast.

actually you know what, I think what the Lying Witch thinks really and kind of always did (but partly because I can't believe the man was such a dick)

vezzie what a ridiculous post. For one thing, no one commented on the OP from a spelling point of view. My opinion of her rests solely on her attitude.

Just imagining the toddler and school years. Deary me

I don't think he was a dick. I think the OP's behaviour was far worse.

vezzie keel thinking of you sat up in the overhead rack.

There was no problem here except the one created by the op.

So glad the poor man got bumped to first class.

The op is very lucky her disgusting accusations weren't taken seriously.

If that had been my dh or dss she was ranting at then I would have given her a huge reality check.

What a drama lama. What a fuss about something g millions if women just get on with. Good grief.

Why would it be harder to breast feed on the single aisle seats? You wouldn't have someone next to you then.
I'm cringing so much at 'Paula out' are you American?

Ooh fab reply. I wonder if him talking to your breasts had anything to do with him being sat down and you stood up? Oh no, of course not. It's because he's a dirty perv of course!

Been on any good spa weekends recently OP.....?

Surfsup1 Fri 08-Aug-14 08:47:19

Once again - why do people these days need to have "the right" to ask for help?

I really hope posters here who are gripping their hypothetical train seats and defending their legal right to NOT help the OP, would actually be kinder in real life. What are we teaching our children? "Don't step out of the away for the old lady, sweetheart, you have just as much right to take up space on the footpath as her!" ??*

I agree surfs up and its worrying but also understandable now why life is becoming stressful and hard in the UK. Each for their own.

YANBU.
Some of these responses are really unpleasant, bordering on nasty.
I'm amazed how women are so unsupportive of each other.
Calling OP entitled, really?? WTAF?

You are being extremely unreasonable, but the sensible responses you have received are cheering; not everyone seems to feel it necessary to make a huge issue out of breastfeeding.
If you book a specific seat you do so for a reason; you should have been the one to move; it is called good manners.
I breastfed both my children until ten months, and never once found it necessary to feed them in a public place, and I certainly did not spend my life within the confines of my home.

Would love to read a post from the bloke and the train guard

That could be hilarious.

I am not defending the OP at all, but I think her post partly reflects the stress caused by inexperience of public transport. It's surprising, but some people haardly ever use trains, and need to learn. Trains are not like cars - you can't just get in and continue to exist in your own private world. You need to plan carefully and - sometimes - do a bit of research, such as finding out about the Family railcard that other Mumsnetters have so helpfully mentioned (and precisely what its terms and conditions are). If travelling with a baby I would also advocate booking by phone rather than online, so you can tell the booking clerk if you have any special needs - eg a big pushchair - that you need help with to get on/off the train. If forewarned, railway staff are usually very helpful - on the day, taken by surprise, it's much more variable (and not really fair on them - they have a lot of things to do). You might also like to ask for reserved seat(s) near the end of the carriage, rather than having to struggle through to the centre of the carriage with wriggly baby and all its kit. If possible, only carry luggage that fits in the overhead rack or in the spaces between the seats; it's much easier to get at that way. If worried about cleanliness, take an old newspaper or two to spread out on the changing table in the loo. Find out from the train company when the trains are likely to be least busy, and travel then, if possible. Etc etc.

On many trains, such Virgin Pendolinos and SouthWest trains (for example) there are little tip-up seats in the corridors; except at very busy times, they are often empty. Sitting there for a few minutes to b/f would give a bit more privacy. And scarves/muslins/ other coverings are obviously an excellent idea.

Incidentally, on some long-distance trains in Germany and (I think) Austria, there ARE special parent-and-baby compartments. But you will - naturally - find fathers as well as mothers there.

She expected other people to go out of their way
Moving a couple of metres to help someone else doesn't count as "going out of their way" in my book. Just common decency.
If the train had been packed she would have had no choice, but there WAS a choice and she asked for help. He could daily have helped but chose not to. Sad Agree.

vezzie Fri 08-Aug-14 10:28:25 Agree and particularly like your Brain analysis of the AIBU poster.

I also agree there was something wrong with the man not to move, I just don't know a single man who wouldn't have moved. But most men I know are very kind and are total gentlemen. As our the ladies I know.

In fact as you came back to seat, we would have all said " Oh, is this your seat, let me see if I can move" Before you even asked....so you would never have to ask.

Its common sense.