To not enter my ds for the 11+

[Minifingers]

DS is bright, top of the top set for maths at school and good at music, but his literacy is weak - dreadful handwriting and syntax.

DH wants to enter him for the 11+ for a super selective. His mum has given us the money to pay for an intensive 15 hour 11+ preparation course next week, but I think it's not a good idea.

The grammar school in question selects on the basis of a maths and English test. The test covers level 6 maths and the English test involves writing an essay. DS hasn't had any tutoring up to this point and has not done any level six maths. He's never, in his whole life written more than a page and a half of anything, and his writing is slow and very messy.

DH is pissed off and I know he feels that I'm turning DS into a wuss by trying to protect him from failure. He's also angry with both of us for not having dealt with it earlier. Neither of us has ever done more with ds than support his music and do the things which all parents do - read to him every day, take him to museums, talk to him etc. We don't do regular maths or writing practice with him. Actually I've never sat down and supervised or looked at any maths with him, and precious little literacy.

DH thinks we should just 'let him have a go' at the test. I think it's unkind to enter a child for a test you believe they can't pass when it's for something as important as secondary school choice. Particularly when they'll be sitting alongside children who've had YEARS of tutoring.

AIBU?

I just don't understand how you are going to face him in years to come should you not try and he says, why the hell not?
Huh? Wouldn't you just say "we didn't think it was the right thing for you at the time."
I don't get this idea of having to justify parenting decisions based on some fictional future demand. Bizarre.

I think you need to speak to your DS. That level of tuition is going to need him on board and motivated. To be honest I think your DH needs to get over his anger because you are where you are now. Your DS sounds talented so even if he fails its not really that big a deal.

I do think that whether or not your DS passes or fails you should consider tuition to improve his written work it will help him across the board. I would also consider how you can support him to make him work harder even if the subject material is challenging or boring.

What we did when ds2 was doing his 11 plus was really big up the second choice school - so the 11 plus was about 'just having a go'.

You said earlier your DH thinks he lacks motivation through not being challenged enough (or something like that). This has proved to be true of ds2. He was a lazy git at primary - really works quite hard now (I think some of it is confidence as well). He Definiteky responds well to some pushing - of course won't be true of all children (& I wouldn't have predicted it of ds2).

I'd still go with your child. Ds2 wanted to have a go so although I had reservations we didn't have to worry about that - if he's been very against the idea he wouldn't have gone in for it.

If the OP's son wants to try, then his parents should support him. Providing that he understands it's a long shot and that nothing rides on it, what's the problem?

Fear of failure is one of the biggest barriers to success. Bigger than lack of ability IMVHO.

It's our job to help our DC overcome this (natural) fear, not compound it.

Protecting our DC from disappointment is, again, a natural desire, but one we must try to overcome. Disappointmnet stings, but it isn't life threatening!

Er...the schools round here are comprehensive, Mini, if you live in the same bit of south east London that I do! My daughters' school is stuffed with scarily bright kids. The boys' equivalent is the same.

Put him in if you want to, but please don't feel he'd be getting a second-class education if he goes to one of the other schools round here. I may be taking this too personally, of course.

Superselctrives tend to have little impact onb the surrounding schools as the pupils are usually from a large area...

IME the culture in the top sets of a Comprehensive is to work once it's important.

They may stress you out in Y7-9 messing about, but once GCSEs come along they work and they get good results. They want to and the school has to help them or Ofstend descends!'q

And remember with BBC bitesize, CGP books and the web, your DS has resources I could only dream of. If your teacher is incomprehensible, the right YouTube video isn't.

Comprehensive education is about taking the long view and that needs nerve and confidence in your child.

Personally I think it gives DCs a much nicer childhood than long days and loads of HW. I see the self concise nice singing gives DD1 and gymnastics gives DD2.

So what if they end Y8 with L6b not L7b for maths they'll still get A at GCSE, but with the time to enjoy life too.

As others have said the most important question is not if he would pass the exam (ds1 with a similar profile did) but if the school is the right place for him. We decided against the grammar for ds1 because they were not prepared to put in any support for him (he has AS) and got the impression that any child with a spiky profile would not be well supported.

Self confidence

Huh? Wouldn't you just say "we didn't think it was the right thing for you at the time."
I don't get this idea of having to justify parenting decisions based on some fictional future demand. Bizarre.

That answer wouldn't necessarily be good enough for an adult child though. I live in an area with super selective grammar schools and I do know one or two people who resent the fact that their parents didn't let them sit the exam for a selective grammar. Nowadays, most parents of academic children let them sit the exam.

There is a big difference between a grammar school area and an area with a super selective.

That answer wouldn't necessarily be good enough for an adult child though.
That's my point, though - since when are adult children entitled to question every decision made on their behalf and expect a "good enough" answer? I mean, my parents made decisions, and I may question the wisdom of some of them, but I am adult enough to accept that they were the ones making the decisions, based on the knowledge they had of me and the circumstances, and what was best for us all as a family.

I am afraid my response to any of the kids telling me that they didn't like the decisions DH and I had made when they were kids would pretty much be "Tough."

I think you put it to your son.

He will have to be committed to the process of getting in. Unfortunately, getting in and being there are two slightly different beasts.

I think you and DH have to agree, and feel at peace with the Comprehensive

(I have one son at Comp - not interested, independently minded, one starting a Superselective - no tutoring, right attitude and motivation to do the tests)

First, I would ask DS what he thinks.

Second, I would be cautious about sending DS the message that if you think you're going to fail at something, it's not worth having a go. Maybe better to let him have a go but prepare to be super supportive if he fails (not by going all sour grapes and saying that the grammar would have been crap anyway, but by saying that it was great that he had a try and that next time he tries hard to get something he wants he might have better luck).

Sorry - above was not clear - DS1 was not interested in the grammar school. Not uninterested in anything!!

It may not bother you but most people would prefer it if their adult children didn't resent their parenting decisions believe it or not brdgrl

And I also think you and DH need to be honest with each other and yourselves about why you want the superselective.

I agree with OneinEight here

Elephants

Totally agree

tiggytape makes an really good point

DS1 would not have got in on this basis, and would have struggled.

However, he's proving to be a later developer and is doing really well in English at Secondary

Just ask your child! He is old enough to know what he wants. Explain the pros and cons of all the outcomes and leave it to him. I am an 11+ tutor and have had one child bed-wetting with stress and another with night terrors (the GP said it was common for children preparing for the 11+). Some children cope fine, others do not. Just talk to your son. Your child can go to any school and do well.

OP: I thought you were dead set against any type of selection in education. I'm sure I have debated this issue in the past on a thread where you were vehemently against all selection and wanted a level playing field. Have you changed your mind?

Not everyone will have had years of tutoring. I successfully sat an exam for a super selective secondary school at 10, with no more tuition than a couple of weeks with my mum on maths and English - my maths was good though I hadn't covered quite a few of the concepts on which i was tested in school, and my handwriting/presentation and time management was appalling. What has he got to lose by entering? If he fails, it won't damage him, and it may motivate him to work harder.

None of our children chose to go to the grammar. Stepson has gone off to an Oxbridge college from the comp/ secondary modern.