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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not enter my ds for the 11+

242 replies

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 08:44

DS is bright, top of the top set for maths at school and good at music, but his literacy is weak - dreadful handwriting and syntax.

DH wants to enter him for the 11+ for a super selective. His mum has given us the money to pay for an intensive 15 hour 11+ preparation course next week, but I think it's not a good idea.

The grammar school in question selects on the basis of a maths and English test. The test covers level 6 maths and the English test involves writing an essay. DS hasn't had any tutoring up to this point and has not done any level six maths. He's never, in his whole life written more than a page and a half of anything, and his writing is slow and very messy.

DH is pissed off and I know he feels that I'm turning DS into a wuss by trying to protect him from failure. He's also angry with both of us for not having dealt with it earlier. Neither of us has ever done more with ds than support his music and do the things which all parents do - read to him every day, take him to museums, talk to him etc. We don't do regular maths or writing practice with him. Actually I've never sat down and supervised or looked at any maths with him, and precious little literacy.

DH thinks we should just 'let him have a go' at the test. I think it's unkind to enter a child for a test you believe they can't pass when it's for something as important as secondary school choice. Particularly when they'll be sitting alongside children who've had YEARS of tutoring.

AIBU?

OP posts:

Original poster

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 09:29

It's a super selective.

OP posts:

DownstairsMixUp · 30/07/2014 09:31

I would let him sit it but I wouldn't put them through loads of tutoring. He'd have to keep up that sort of studying to stay up to standard surely and that's too much pressure for a kid. Round here most of the non selective schools are pretty dire tbh but I'll just let DS have a go at the test, if he passes then great, if he doesn't, well he tried his best and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

SanityClause · 30/07/2014 09:33

How good is the school at supporting (comparatively) poor literacy?

DD1 is at a superselective grammar. She is thriving there.

OTOH, I didn't even get DD2 to sit the test. She is dyslexic, and DD1 has a dyslexic friend who, despite really excelling in the areas she is good at, has had very little literacy support. (She does get a small amount of extra time in tests.)

For DS, we have a few different options for 11+ tests. One is a school which has an appalling attitude towards DC with SEN. DS is dyspraxic. His handwriting is functionally illegible. Even if he passed the test (which he wouldn't) once he got into the school, he would flounder, because the school don't give a shit about children with SEN.

What's the point of passing the test if the school isn't the right one for him, anyway?

Sassyb0703 · 30/07/2014 09:34

My dd1 failed 11+ by one mark in maths...always top of the class in maths...appealed with HM attending and past work records but not upheld. I really wanted dd to go to grammar because ALL her friends were going there ( parents had ensured this by tutoring from year 3 onwards - which we couldn't afford)I felt really sorry for her as she started at the local comprehensive..move on 7 years and we are awaiting A level results.. expecting (says this quietly while touching wood)..3 A's.. received offers from all 5 uni applications. Meanwhile thanks to FB and other technologies, has remained friends with majority of primary school mates who attended the grammar..a group of 5 lovely girls. 2 of these girls dropped out of school at 16.having exhausted themselves trying to keep up and been turned right off of any further study. 2 remaining grammar school friends are planning to go to the same Uni that dd is hoping for. So OP the moral of this long tale from my humble experience is don't worry ! In the end, he will do well where ever he is if he is bright. He is much less likely to enjoy it if pressured. If English isn't his thing it is likely he will not pass and feel awful..if you have a good alternative go for that. Secondary education should be about what's best for the children, NOT (as it is around here) about being able to brag that your child is at grammar, as it means nothing other than you have more money to tutor your child than the next parent DEFINITELY NOT anything to do with your child being brighter than average.

Delphiniumsblue · 30/07/2014 09:38

If he doesn't know he might as well try- so few get into a super selective that it is not going to knock him back if he fails. Apart from anything else you won't have DH saying you ruined his chances! I don't think he will get in even with the tutoring - but at least you won't have stopped him!

littledrummergirl · 30/07/2014 09:39

Both of my ds sat the 11+. We told them that if they pass they have more options.
Ds1 scraped into his ss but is now top end of the class(they dont set). He is going into yr10.

Ds2 didnt pass and is now at the best comp for him. He has been diagnosed as dyslexic and is getting support. If ds1 was at that school he would have been expelled by now for doing silly things while bored.

Its the same curriculum, just taught at a different pace.

Both of mine gained from the process, they are better able to deal with exam pressure as a result.

Ds1 still has dreadful handwriting!

He has nothing to lose by trying and much to gain.

Original poster

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 09:40

Without being arrogant, if we had a system of selection at 11 where the schools in the catchment of a grammar were asked to select a handful of children they thought would do well in an academically challenging environment, I know my ds would be picked. He's articulate, has a high reading age, very good general knowledge for a child of 10, enjoys learning, and is quick at processing. He gets top marks in maths tests without doing any practice at home. He's also the most accomplished musician at school and is left to fool around on his own in music lessons or teach the other children, as he is so far ahead.

He has a lot of potential - and this is what my DH sees. He sees my ds as 'natural grammar school material'. I think what does DH's head in is looking back on his own education, where he just drifted through a rough state school, underachieving. Having failed his A levels he went back into education at 20, and went on to get a Phd in chemistry. He's done well in his career and is a very bright guy.

He can see that my ds doesn't have a work ethic, but feels it's because he's not being challenged enough.

OP posts:

SanityClause · 30/07/2014 09:41

I would also say this. In the state system, so much emphasis is put on SATS, that year 6 can be really boring for many children, with the constant grind of revision.

Once they get into secondary, they start to actually learn new and interesting things again, and really start to enjoy school again.

That could well apply to your DS, who, from what you have written, sounds like he is bright and bored.

BeyondDespairandRepair · 30/07/2014 09:42

I think what ifs are an awful burden to inflict on your child and you willl do this by stopping him sit one hour test.

To me its a no brainer. He will only think its a big deal if you stress ad worry and talk about it in front of him.,

however if he gives it a go and fails, and then goes to school, hates it - or later in life says "why didnt you push me more" etc you can say, we entered you for 11+ tutored you and you failed.

Better than, oh darling we werent sure and grany offered to pay but we thought an hours test was too much for you....

If he does pass, you have choices, he doesnt have to go to grammer, but better to try and get in, and fail, better to try and get in and get in then drop out...than not try and never know.

By not allowing him to even try your also ramping up the pressure on his other school choice and your DH could end up being very resentful to you for blocking and stopping his chance....should his school career not go smoothly.

Its just a no brainer in my mind, and BTW NOT all parents take their DC's out to museums and read to them.

On here I have seen examples of paretns doing extreme tutoring and not got child in, and parents whose children have done an hour here and there and have got it.

Just let him try and dont make a big deal of it. Otherwise this sword of damacles will hang forever over YOUR head.

Original poster

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 09:44

"I would let him sit it but I wouldn't put them through loads of tutoring."

There's no point surely in putting a child in for a maths test when they haven't even covered the curriculum?

Sassy Thank you! I like stories like yours. Good luck to your dd.

OP posts:

whatever5 · 30/07/2014 09:45

I think that most of the people who are saying that tutoring should not be required haven't a clue about what it is like nowadays in grammar school areas. The vast majority of children either have tuition or do practice papers at home before the exam so paying for your own child to have a few hours of tuition will only level the playing field a bit and give them more confidence before doing the exam. People may not have had tuition in the past for grammar schools but primary schools used to prepare them. They don't do that nowadays.

Original poster

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 09:46

I wouldn't consider putting him in for a music exam above his current level, where he hadn't covered the curriculum.

Why would I do this with the 11+?

He hasn't done any level 6 maths. He needs to have done it in order to have a chance of a place. A few weeks of tutoring can't put this right.

OP posts:

BeyondDespairandRepair · 30/07/2014 09:47

"I would let him sit it but I wouldn't put them through loads of tutoring."

Just throw everything at it and let him sit and tutor him then you all know you did your best for him.

As for putting him through loads of tutoring...I know of some chinese children at private school up at 6.30 EVERY DAY to do extra work and work until 7.30pm at night - they are 6.

Really. is a few weeks of his entire life of a few hours a day going to be damaging?

whatever5 · 30/07/2014 09:47

I totally agree with BeyondDespairandRepair.

BeyondDespairandRepair · 30/07/2014 09:49

He hasn't done any level 6 maths. He needs to have done it in order to have a chance of a place. A few weeks of tutoring can't put this right

True. Although this is the case with tons of dc sitting 11+ - have you ever looked at 11+ actual forum, or people talking about it on here? In primary ed etc...

I think your defeated before you have even begun and should just forget the idea.

Delphiniumsblue · 30/07/2014 09:49

If you do put him in for it I would do the tutoring. Tutoring isn't a passive thing- it will only work with his effort.

Hakluyt · 30/07/2014 09:51

""I would let him sit it but I wouldn't put them through loads of tutoring."

I would think it would be pretty horrible to be someone who found writing a struggle to spend an hour in a roomful of other 10 year olds frantically scribbling away while you struggled to get to the bottom of the page.........

Hakluyt · 30/07/2014 09:52

"As for putting him through loads of tutoring...I know of some chinese children at private school up at 6.30 EVERY DAY to do extra work and work until 7.30pm at night - they are 6."

So do I. Fucking outrageous.

Original poster

Minifingers · 30/07/2014 09:53

Just to rub a bit of salt into the wound for DH, his sister's ds has got a place for September at this particular grammar at 13+, after 2 years at a private prep school, plus tutoring.

OP posts:

TwinkleDust · 30/07/2014 09:53

What motivated your husband to go back into education? Did he discover a passion for chemistry? PhDs need more than a work ethic...

It doesn't sound to me like your son doesn't have a work ethic. It sounds like he has lacked an opportunity to excel. Is it this that your husband is expecting to happen at grammar school?

Actually. On the surface your OP raised a simplistic issue. But, it is actually far more complex. I think you need to talk lots more. About what you both think education is for and about. And talk to your son.

Hakluyt · 30/07/2014 09:53

"Just throw everything at it and let him sit and tutor him then you all know you did your best for him. "

And you're sure that a superselective school is "the best" for the op's child exactly how?

BeyondDespairandRepair · 30/07/2014 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BeyondDespairandRepair · 30/07/2014 09:55

Depends on child, I was never aware what other children were doing in an exam room and never dared to look in direction of them writing on their papers for fear of cheating etc.

Hakluyt · 30/07/2014 09:56

See? This is why I hate selective education so much. It unhinges people!

lizzzyyliveson · 30/07/2014 09:57

That doesn't rub salt into a wound at all, it gives your son a second shot too. You didn't say that there was this alternative for him. Do the tutoring now and if it doesn't happen at 11+ keep on trying for the 13+.

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