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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

621 replies

DikTrom · 28/07/2014 21:23

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

OP posts:
TheTravellingLemon · 29/07/2014 20:53

The thing is abouttobe I don't want to have any enemies. I just want to live in peace and safety with my family. It breaks my heart that people who I have never met are hoping for my death or that I should be afraid to let my little boy wear his maccabi haifa tshirt in public or even to go to shul. I don't want enemies. But I feel like it's being thrust upon me.

abouttobeevicted · 29/07/2014 20:54

also Hamas is not Palestine. I have no problems with the Palestinian people. I have a problem only with Hamas. they are using schools hospitals and houses to send their rockets .its not fair on their civilians. Israel has a right to defend. like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Voodoobooboo · 29/07/2014 20:54

Agree with both. I did spend a few years in Israel and never felt totally happy there as I am not massively religious. It is part of my life, but not as central as it is for many others. Plus I don't want my DS to grow up in a Jewish state, I want him to have a wide world view of a multicultural and multi racial society. I also don't want him in the army. But these things are secondary to not being a number in another Shoah, which leads to my other, far bigger, worry which is would we be safe in Israel? Or would they just know where to point the nuke? I really do think it is just a bigger ghetto where we can be controlled.

abouttobeevicted · 29/07/2014 20:56

back - my children will be joining the IDF whether we are in Israel or not. they both want to do it to defend the Jewish State of Israel.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 29/07/2014 20:56

Voodoo, don't you know Jewish people do not 'experience' anti-semitism? On mumsnet, they 'cry' anti semitism or they 'howl' anti semitism. (Or there is no anti semitism.)

The Middle East, the world is full of tension and conflict, but all of it is because of Israel, apparently, and Israel is the worst of the lot, ever, apparently, and therefore, Jewish people in Europe deserve to feel unsafe, apparently.

Voodoobooboo · 29/07/2014 20:59

JohnFarleyRuskin, i was called a jewish cunt. In my workplace. Pretty sure that I'm experiencing anti-semitism.

wannabestressfree · 29/07/2014 21:01

It is comforting to come on a thread where I don't feel like a monster or am abused......

greeneggsandjam · 29/07/2014 21:02

blimey

alAswad · 29/07/2014 21:02

runes I expect full condemnation of rapists and groups like Boko Haram by everyone - I don't expect it on this thread though, because it's completely irrelevant Confused

For what it's worth, insofar as I understand the situation I do condemn the actions of the Israeli government (I'm reluctant to say the IDF as I'm aware that the majority are young conscripts and may well not agree with the government's stance). I don't see how that has anything to do with anti-Semitic attacks in Europe though, except that it's being used as an excuse by the scum who perpetrate these attacks. The same way that extremism is used as an excuse by the scum who attack Muslims and various excuses are made by the scum who attack women.

greeneggs so do the Jewish people on this thread not deserve to feel safe where they live because of the politics of Israel? This is exactly the kind of thing people are talking about when they refer to conflation of the two issues.

TheTravellingLemon · 29/07/2014 21:03

voodoo this is exactly what DH and I discussed. There's no easy answer.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 29/07/2014 21:03

Oof, Thanks

Backinthering · 29/07/2014 21:03

abouttobeevicted I'm sorry to hear your children will be serving in the military.
My older brother was a conscript in South Africa during the height of the border war. The psychological fall-out affected my entire family.

abouttobeevicted · 29/07/2014 21:14

IDF is not just soldiers. it is also community service and admin.

macdoodle · 29/07/2014 21:15

I am a non practising Jew, with a non political view. But in WW2, my family had no where to go, and they were murdered.
I think its pretty scary for Jews at the moment, and if it got much worse I wouldnt hesitate to grab my Jewish children, and run as fast as my little legs would take me to Israel. Because last time there wasnt anywhere to run to, and for this reason and this alone I will defend the right of Israel to exist, because I never want to be in the position of having no where safe to go. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

TheTravellingLemon · 29/07/2014 21:16

abouttobeevicted Flowers

MyFairyKing · 29/07/2014 21:18

"Its a pity the people of Gaza don't have a place to live where they can feel safe."

Yep, ditto the people of Syria and many other places.

P.S. your comment was pretty fucking nasty. Just thought you might want to know as you don't seem very self aware.

PigletJohn · 29/07/2014 21:19

Voodoobooboo

intelligent rational people are wondering whether they will have to abandon their homes, their careers, their friends and everything they have to escape with their own and their families lives.

That's terrible. It's like a return to 1948.

runes · 29/07/2014 21:24

alAswad This was always going to be mentioned on this thread given current world events. I again reiterate that I do not approve of any racist, bigoted or antisemitic attacks. I am appalled however at certain posters who defend/fail to condemn child murderers and I will NOT apologise for my stance on this.

abouttobeevicted · 29/07/2014 21:25

mac- that actually made me cry. can I get your permission to post on Facebook. obviously removing anything personal.

runes · 29/07/2014 21:31

myfairyking Owen Jones wrote an excellent piece on the whataboutery of Israel's defenders owenjonesramblings.tumblr.com/post/93010045984/the-whataboutery-of-israels-defenders

ThunderbumsMum · 29/07/2014 21:36

Can you not see the hypocrisy in what you posted runes? This is a thread about anti-semitism in Europe that has been hijacked by people like you asking what about Israel and Gaza?

catsrus · 29/07/2014 21:37

you're doing a great job of proving a point runes - though probably not the point you think you are proving.....

alAswad · 29/07/2014 21:37

But if it's not a justification for anti-Semitic attacks (which we're agreed on), then why should it be mentioned?

People have talked in this thread about how you can't justify the actions of Israel by saying 'oh but Syria/ISIS/whoever are doing worse things'. Which is true, just because another country is (arguably) committing worse crimes doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to the situation in Gaza. But equally, you can't dismiss acts of anti-Semitism in Europe by saying 'but the people in Gaza are facing worse!' They are, but that doesn't mean people should have to put up and shut up about what's going on here.

alAswad · 29/07/2014 21:40

X-post with everyone, sorry! That last paragraph wasn't particularly directed at you, runes - more to people like greeneggs and PigletJohn who are dismissing the experiences of people on this thread based on the actions of a government they have nothing to do with.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 29/07/2014 21:47

Unfortunately I have heard several Jewish people expressing support for Israel's current actions in the name of their faith simply because Israel is the Jewish state. It makes me feel so sad for the many Jews who do not support the atrocities because people are beginning to feel and towards the entire group.