AIBU to think commander Sarah West has spoilt this for all women now

[Thefishewife]

Commander Sarah West was promoted to the rank of first female navel officer of a war ship despite fierce opposition.

The long held view is that women in such close quarters with men would for long periods of time would lead to the investable and on board relationships are bad for moral , and causes issues that can be difficult to resolve in a small space

After so many years of women navel personal convincing the brass this would not be the case what did she do start and affair with one of her married junior officers on board

Personally I think she is a silly women not just fucked her own career but have set navel women back

And sadly this will be now used as exactly the reason why women should not be on ships (hmm) I was just so peed of when I read this

FFS, no woman deserves that burden, to be a fucking carrier of the baton for all of us. It's not fair. She's just a woman, same as the rest of us, to succeed or fuck up the same as every one of us.
She isn't some standard bearer to represent us all, thats just as insulting as those that said she shouldn't have the job in the first place. Its the same fucking problem.

I don't think women should be at sea at all, and certainly not commanding a ship.there's certain jobs women just aren't suited to and being at sea with men is a recipe for disaster as this stupid and irresponsible woman has shown.

Maisy perhaps there should be no men at sea then. Staff all the boats with women
Unbelievable.

So everyone who is not white and male must carry the baton for us all?

You know what, why not just treat people who are not white men as white men? We could all be equal then, individuals with our own thoughts and feelings, only judged as individuals and not seeing the worst of us as representative as all of as a group. Is it really that hard? Why must white men continue to get the advantage again and again.

I read a wonderful comment recently, it was along the lines of if you are saying we have equality and positive discrimination advances non whites and women unjustifiably over white men then you are saying that white men are superior. Because if we are equal then the dominance of white men must be because they are better, more suited to be leaders, more intelligent and more capable. Do you really believe that being white and male makes you more capable and deserving of ruling over the rest of us?

I'm sick to the back teeth of the oppressed having to prove themselves better than the oppressor, or the oppressed being judged when we do not immediately dance to the oppressors tune. But I'm a woman so I should just piss off.

She should be judged by the same standards applied to male officers in this position. Like she was when she was appointed to office.

No more, no less

What AF said, couldn't give a shit about her sex liking sex as long as a male counterpart would be subjected to the same scrutiny-by both superiors & the media.

yabu

Unless of course you prefer to go along with the misogynist view that women are not as responsible as men so can not hold certain positions. She may have ruined her career her actions should not ruin other women's career. If she has had an affair with a man it certainly will not impact the careers of other men and strangely never has

The whole point of it isn't to do with whether her male counterpart would be subject to the same scrutiny as her.....it's the fact that a female commander of a RN ship has slept with a crew member, thereby undermining what for years female members of the Royal Navy swore would never happen when insisting they should be allowed to serve along side men on ships. She has thereby proved that women should not be on long stretches at sea along side men.....and for someone to suggest "let it be all women then" to serve on ships basically because otherwise women are being done over is ridiculous, naive and practically impossible. I would say exactly the same if the commander had been male and the crew member female. It doesn't work!!

Tbh the first thing that sprung to mind when I heard that story was 'what an easy way to discredit her, and all women in her position, to allege an affair'
It is still, as far as I am aware, an allegation to be investigated. If she is found 'guilty' then there will be an accepted procedure to go through. The military does love its procedures!

Men don't have to swear that no men will ever have an affair. Treat her as an individual.

I can categorically state that if I was a naval commander I wouldn't have sex with a junior officer. Her doing it doesn't negate my integrity.

If you are really saying neither men nor women can ever be trusted to be on board ships together, why aren't we working towards single sex ships of both sorts?

Human nature dictates it. Are you serious about single sex ships? You really think that is feasible, or has it escaped your notice that there are certain things that women cannot physically do? Please, let's keep it real.

I'm not serious because it's patently ridiculous (as ridiculous as men only warships really). As is the idea that all women can't be trusted. There are very very few things 'ALL women can't physically do', sure some things the average women cant do, but with skill, training etc... it's different. I was making a point about how it is totally unacceptable to say men and women can't work together, so the solution is to blame all women and deny them opportunities.

Not sure it matters does it?

Unless they were shagging on duty then who cares?

They are paid to do their jobs. If they do them then what they get up to in private is private isn't it?

Not sure it matters does it?

Unless they were shagging on duty then who cares?

They are paid to do their jobs. If they do them then what they get up to in private is private isn't it?

Agree with limon, Lottie and grocklebox. It's very disheartening to read some of the responses here.

This woman is no more a torch-bearer than any other woman doing their job. It's very unfair to apply standards that wouldn't be applied to a man. Sexism... no doubt about it.

But some women can actually do what any man can.

I mean physically a woman who is strong enough and trains enough can do any job.

Men however cannot ever give birth so are always physically disadvantaged.

Women are physically more able.

YABU.

Maybe men should never have top roles because of relationships with subordinates.

Totally sexist.

Sorry, I don't support the feminist idea that being able to kill people just like a man should be a feminist aspiration.

In my young day, feminism united with other causes in the search for a better society for all. At this moment when I cannot watch the news or open the newspaper without seeing dead or dying children, I vote that once more feminists unite for a better world, not to put women in the boardroom or the army.

A few years ago women were insisting they could be miners working along side the men. After massive expense putting in separate toilets they actually discovered they weren't physically able to do the job. What a surprise. Kind of proved a point though.

Maisy, your argument is ridiculous. I don't know anything about the situation with female miners but it is very very clear to me that there will be some women in the world able to do the job. Perhaps it's a job a man with 'average' strength can be trained to do and a women with 'above average' strength can be trained to do. Equality would mean allowing those with the strength, ability and inclination to get on and do.

Mexican I understand your point but I don't really agree, a world without war is a commendable aspiration, but not as achievable as equality for women I don't think.

It really shouldn't be seen as demeaning to women to accept that some jobs just aren't suitable for them, just as certain jobs aren't suitable for men. When was the last time you saw a female bin man, roofer, hod carrier, scaffolder.....more to the point most women just wouldn't want to do these jobs, I know I wouldn't, because basically I haven't got the stamina for it. Why would I want to. I accept the fact that we are made different.....Women can also play a vital role in the armed forces, but could anyone seriously envisage the First World War trenches filled with women and all the massive hardships that the men endured. Women endured massive hardships in that war too, but of a different kind. We are made different for a reason, to insist we are all the same is childish and nonsensical.

Maisyblue, I just can't agree with you about women not being able to be binmen, etc. I worked in a hospital laundry and my husband was working as a binman. We at the laundry were all lifting more than the weight of a bin in bedsheets. But maybe women wouldn't have to be binmen if jobs that are traditionally done by women, such as laundry work were paid as well as jobs that are traditionally done by men, such as binmen.

At least it helps with the equality argument.

Women can be just as weak & sleazy as men in the same positions.

I'd personally still think it was a betrayal of trust whichever way round it was - the Commanding Officer has a Duty of Care to all below them & shouldn't take advantage of their position....

The military will treat her the same as any other officer, if she is found guilty, then she will receive the same punishment.

the media have picked up on it as she was the first female captain, similar to when they reported she got the job in the first place- they dont report every military promotion but this was special.

it shouldnt affect future womens chance of getting the job

The reasons Women aren't often seen working as refuse collectors has nothing to do with them physically not being able to and everything to do with societal forces.

I wouldn't want to be one, but I'm also prepared to bet that the vast majority of men (including many who do the job) don't aspire to be refuse collectors either.

I agree sea monkeys, if the allegations turn out to be true it is an utter breach of her position and she deserves to be punished in the same way as a male officer would be. It just shouldn't impact on the way women are generally viewed.