AIBU to think commander Sarah West has spoilt this for all women now

[Thefishewife]

Commander Sarah West was promoted to the rank of first female navel officer of a war ship despite fierce opposition.

The long held view is that women in such close quarters with men would for long periods of time would lead to the investable and on board relationships are bad for moral , and causes issues that can be difficult to resolve in a small space

After so many years of women navel personal convincing the brass this would not be the case what did she do start and affair with one of her married junior officers on board

Personally I think she is a silly women not just fucked her own career but have set navel women back

And sadly this will be now used as exactly the reason why women should not be on ships (hmm) I was just so peed of when I read this

Sadly but that's not the way being a minority works

And the issue here is , that sex and being a distraction is one of the reasons cited why women shouldn't be on board

It's not good just saying well men don't have to behave a certain way because that's not going to help the next female who wants to become a commander

Does have a whiff of "equality" about it though - just makes me think "another non gender specific idiot abusing their position of power who can't keep their trousers on"

Rebecca - Loads and loads of the officers and sgts do that and its almost a thing to show off. This is sexism pure and simple.

I was so angry when I heard about this yesterday.

Is it headline news when a male commander does something wrong and is removed form the ship? No, I thought not.

Pure and simple sexism.

And it won't "put women back" because if anyone discriminates against a woman because "she might have an affair" then they'd be rightly taken to court for sexual discrimination.

A male naval commander would lose his command in these circumstances and therefore so should she. I think it's a shame it does help the 'women can't be in the navy, women can't be on ships, women can't command ships' brigade.

I know lots of others do shag around, as Melissa points out. However, it is not universal. And while some may be doing it to show off to the lads, it would not impress many others.

"Not onboard, let alone in command"

That is the view generally held by misogynist senior rates. The modern view in the Royal Navy is that women are just as capable as men and Commander West over the course of her two year appointment proved that she is every bit as good as her male counterparts. She was appointed because she's good and the best officer for that job.

My personal opinion is one of disappointment.

Sadly but that's not the way being a minority works

Would you dare post such a thing in a public place if it had been a black man?

Can you imagine the (rightful) outrage 'yes, this is why people don't think black men should be commanders?'

Sexist shite. So sick of men and women being held to completely different moral standards.

If the RN decides now not to promote women then they will have to face the full might of equal opps, or whatever it's called these days.

Lottie I am black

And yes I would if it were the first black commander and they did something to fuck it up I would be very disappointed and think well what now for any you ambitious officer who wants to be promoted

and just a side note being black it was was alway drummed in I had to be better to be equal and that any bad deed I did would be judged more harshly because I am black and less likely to be forgiven

You see in some circumstance this would make 'news' if it were a man. A 56 year old male commander, married with 5 children. Has affair with 19 year old female sailor. That probably would make the daily mail too. Male commander has affair with young male sailor would make the news too.

She will lose her command as many men have. Can you still lose your pension for this kind of thing. She has let her sailors and officers down.

YANBU
DH nearly got a clip round the ear for the gleeful tone if voice he used to read out that news story.

Sadly he still has a very old fashioned view of women in the front line forces.

Let's look at this in prospective.

There are plenty of female Commanders, there are women driving ships (smaller ones than HMS Portland) and a female Commodore. This is just one CO who got caught and placed on 5th watch. Women in the Royal Navy are coming up through the ranks slowly but surely and it won't too long before there is another female CO of a type 23.

I agree OP.

Women shouldn't be held to different moral standards. she shouldn't be judged any differently to a man in her position. This shouldn't set back the role/perception of women in the Navy.

But it will - and it is naive to assume otherwise. Sadly, she did have to be better to be equal.

I look forward to the day when that's no longer the case, but we're not there yet.

Having to be better to be equal is so so wrong though. Shouldn't we be fighting it? Not making it ok and affirming the status quo on here?

YANBU OP. This has provided ammunition for the mysoginists and that is crap.

and just a side note being black it was was alway drummed in I had to be better to be equal and that any bad deed I did would be judged more harshly because I am black and less likely to be forgiven

^This.
It is unfair and it shouldn't be the case but unfortunately that is how I have had to live my life. And that is what I drum into my (mixed race) children.

I agree with Lottie.

When a male officer commits an offence, no-one says that he has spoilt things for all men and that he's really let his gender down.

Only those involved should face consequences for their actions. Not all women everywhere.

My ex-forces stepdad trotted this out last night as a reason women shouldn't be on ships or the frontlines. Exactly as you predicted OP.

I don't think she should be judged until the allegations are proven... innocent until proven guilty and all that.

If she is guilty of the alleged misconduct, then she should receive the same sanctions as a male commander without question.

However, if a man was in the same position you can bet it wouldn't be all of the media in quite the same way though. I doubt it would be headline news.

I think that is such a depressing title. We as women need to stop using phrases that group us all together as a mass. You would never hear a man say such things, because they consider themselves and each other individuals. If we don't stop treating our gender as a hive mind there's no chance of men stopping either.

I agree. I've also always been told that to many people I'm not VampireSquid- I'm the representation of my race and my religion often, too. People who see me negatively for that already won't be satisfied with me acting like anyone else, they have to have no excuse for their opinions, I can't prove them right. Is it fair? No. But it's reality.

I don't think it's right that women are held to higher standards/have a media storm over is compared to men. But we can't change that straight away, that's the current reality. We are changing it slowly, and in a perfect world, this wouldn't happen and she'd be judged the same as a man, but she was one of the figureheads for women in command in the navy, and now all the misogynists have a reason (a shit one) and a way to excuse their misogyny by saying 'I was right all along'.

Sadly, in some spheres, women are still not being judged as individuals (as men always have been) but as representatives of their whole sex. This will change, in time, as the ratio of men and women equalises but it is happening a lot more slowly in some areas - such as the armed forces - than others.