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to think this should have been murder? Warning: potential triggers. Distressing content. [title edited by MNHQ]

371 replies

wannaBe · 25/07/2014 16:57

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28483061\warning, distressing content}
So it's culpable homicide because she didn't mean to kill him? ok then. Hmm I hope there is a special place in hell for people like her.

OP posts:
Molio · 26/08/2014 09:28

It's entirely possible to have compassion for everyone involved in this whole appalling situation EarthWindFire. Compassion isn't an either/ or thing.

The word 'rot' in this context and the DM commentators special - 'rot in hell' are both utterly revolting.

I'm surprised MN allowed this thread. It seems clear that there wasn't the necessary mental element to kill, and therefore a murder charge couldn't succeed.

Bakeoffcakes · 26/08/2014 09:28

Excellent post Andy

ICanSeeTheSun · 26/08/2014 09:53

Popette it is impossible to bond to everyone in this world, having no bond with a child doesn't mean you kill him in cold blood.

I will ask you this, why did she do it to her own child. Why not an adult who could defend themselves.

The fact of the matter is that she knew a child was not able to defend him self, and even went on to google how to cover up the abuse.

Gullygirl · 26/08/2014 09:57

I'm astonished at some posters who appear to be trying to excuse the atrocious actions of this woman.
She tortured her child.
She had had all her children removed previously, due to neglect.
She was cold and calculated in her actions after punching her little boy to death, over several days, putting his body in a suitcase,driving to Fife,lying her arse off to try to cover up what she had done.
She showed no compassion for her own child,not an ounce, and I have fuck all compassion for her.

EarthWindFire · 26/08/2014 10:03

The word 'rot' in this context and the DM commentators special - 'rot in hell' are both utterly revolting.

I wish people would stop going on about the DM. It has been in all national press!

I still can't get over how people feel compassion for her. She didn't just 'snap'. It was a prolonged attack over days and then her actions were covered up. What must that poor child have gone through

aubreye · 26/08/2014 10:04

It's so sad to think somebody would do that to such an innocent little boy. I agree that there's a place in hell for her.

HavanaSlife · 26/08/2014 11:03

This isnt a women struggling and trying to do the best for her childrrn, this is a women who neglected all her dcs and beat one of them to death over a number of days, she didnt just snap, beat him regreat her loss of control and get him help. She left him in pain for days and continued to hit him.

If a man had done this to his partner there would be no sympathy, or if it was the father? I dont think so.

Lots of people suffer depression, they dont attack people repeatedly over a number of days until they die.

ilovechristmas1 · 26/08/2014 12:16

popette i ask again

are you saying she did not go clubbing leaving her 5 children on their own all weekend with known drug dealers??

was she actually diagnosed as having mental health problems before she killed her son??

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:19

How exactly is Popette supposed to know the answers to those questions? Has there been official information released to say that she did leave them unattended to go clubbing or is it just facebook and local chat? Genuine question.

popette · 26/08/2014 12:20

My comments are offensive to the millions who battle mental illness??! Oh my, I had no idea I was conversing with people with such low intelligence. I stand by my comments and they're validity. The title of this post is 'should this have been murder' and I have expressed my view that I did not believe it was. I also work in the mental health sector and try to see every personal situation with some understanding. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

It's like being transported back to the the middle ages, reading this thread. It's a witch hunt. I'm disgusted. Phrases such as 'rot in hell' and 'surprised she doesn't kill people on the street' are offensive and ignorant.

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 26/08/2014 12:27

This reply has been deleted

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EarthWindFire · 26/08/2014 12:27

I was conversing with people with such low intelligence.

Resulting to insults now. How intelligent.

ilovechristmas1 · 26/08/2014 12:27

all across the press about her neglect of all the children,Google it's all there to see and has been for months

popette keep s going on about depression and im intrested if she had a diagnosis that would carry more weight or did she just say she was depressed there is a difference

popette seems to dodge the area about her persistent neglect of the other 4 children to,it's as if she dosent want to aknowledge there was neglect of the others

and as for the stock stupid comment regarding the Daily Mail (yawn)really does she not think we can source other sites for information,can thy all be making it up

popette seems to think she knows many of the reasons why this happened so she must know some of the answers

Stratter5 · 26/08/2014 12:31

This mindset of doing the right thing by feeling compassion, no matter what the person has done, is dangerous. It minimises their actions, it normalises their actions, by attributing then to MH problems it tarnishes everyone else who has those problems, and most of all it brushes aside the real victims by making out that these monsters are also victims.

She was reported by her neighbours and family.
She had all of her children in care at one stage or another.
She was compos mentis enough to google 'how to cover bruises' rather that get help.

This wasn't a one off action, instantly regretted and help sought; she systematically best this child to death whilst he was already ill over a period of three days. His body had over 40 separate injuries. At any stage she could have got help for him, instead she was in the internet posting messages on Facebook.

Some people are monsters. Are you going to excuse the Wests, Brady, Hindley, et all? Where does it end? Does your heart bleed for rapists, murderers, abusers, the man who kills his wife because she nagged him?

The only person who deserves compassion is Mikaeel. And his siblings, who must have been terrified.

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:31

I am well aware of the media reports but that goes for nothing. It doesn't mean it is trey which is why I was asking if there was reports from a more credible source.

I have been involved in many an enquiry where newspaper reports can be sensationalist, inaccurate and damaging.

I don't see the point in asking Popette answers to questions about neglect, how can she know?

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:32

True, not "trey". Bloody auto correct.

ilovechristmas1 · 26/08/2014 12:37

so the whole of the press is lying then,it's been avaliable to
read for months,why havent the papers been sued,made to take down if it's untrue??

or would it be more believable if someone came on her saying her second couisin twice removed knows the whole story

ilovechristmas1 · 26/08/2014 12:40

so are you saying the others werent neglected and taken into care then?

and that her own mother didnt report her to SS?

are you saying this is all lies?

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:43

Ilove, the papers are perfectly entitled to print it if it has came from an apparently credible source. If they printed blatant lies that they knew to be lies then they could be sued for that. Although in this circumstance a private prosecution was unlikely!

I had a family member who died in tragic circumstances after taking ill. It then followed a series of article in the Daily Record where they had comments from my "cousin". Family lawyers got involved but there was no retraction or apology. They just stopped printing follow up stories.

I'm not saying she didn't leave them but that's not the issue at hand here. But don't believe it just because the media said so!

Stratter5 · 26/08/2014 12:44

I'm inclined to believe what I read in decent broadsheets, I only read the DM for the sidebar of shame and for linking purposes. The partying and neglect has been reported by every news source I can see, including the BBC and Reuters. For that reason, I'm more than satisfied to conclude that it is fact, not fiction.

I simply do not understand this mindset that there has to be an excuse, and it IS an excuse, for every heinous thing that happens. It minimalists and trivialises the event and what the true victim went through.

This woman was not a victim. Her three year old son was.

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:44

Why are you being so argumentative about this? There is no doubt they were in care, and I'm sure her mum did report her. But these are facts that can be proven and not by facebook photos.

IPityThePontipines · 26/08/2014 12:45

What Stratters says about minimising being dangerous is true.

People are often so desperate to view parents, especially mothers, as "just needing more support", it blinds them to the actual abuse happening to the child until it is too late. It also means too much professional time and focus is spent on the adults, instead of the children.

Nicknacky · 26/08/2014 12:46

Seriously, take it with a pinch of salt. I'm in the police and I regularly read about cases and the media reports don't often accurately reflect the investigation. Believe me or not, but that's the truth of it.

ilovechristmas1 · 26/08/2014 12:49

ok what part of this should we take with a pinch of salt ?

rainbowinmyroom · 26/08/2014 12:51

She wanted to have the twins adopted from birth, but her family talked her out of it.