to think this should have been murder? Warning: potential triggers. Distressing content. [title edited by MNHQ]

[wannaBe]

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28483061\warning, distressing content}
So it's culpable homicide because she didn't mean to kill him? ok then. I hope there is a special place in hell for people like her.

Molio she didnt just snap and hit him once- she killed him it over 3 days
Not once didi she think "oh god what have I done I need to get him help". No she hit him over 3 days, resulting in 40 injuries, let him die, put him in a suitcase, his his body then lied to the police.

We don't have to be inside her head inorder to judge her and its very arrogant of you to say that!

If this was a single mum of 5 snapping at 1 of the children in a moment of sheer frustration then called an ambulance I would have every once of compassion.

It's impossible to stay awake for 3 days, some point she would have gone to sleep and eaten or had a drink. She failed to get any medical treatment instead she stuffed his little body in a suitcase and dumped it by a family member home.

Excuse typos

I take little notice of what is written in the mail, I do take notice of what I listen to on 5live or bbc news, read in the telegraph or guardian.

The facts remain the same, she attacked him and left him to die over a period of days.

She left him to rot, I find it hard to offer compassion.

Would her sympathisers be equally forgiving if the murderer was his dad, no one has answered yet?

i have asked the exact same ?? on all these threads

of course the man would be crucified an no amount of excuses would sacrifice,it would be very clean cut

Unless you were in this mother's head, you shouldn't judge. And not one of you have the court papers, so know nothing of what went on.

I'll judge away over this thank you.

For those 'appalled' by peoples comments I am 'appalled' at being asked to find compassion for someone who killed their child slowly over a number of days.

Nerf, I have entered the conversation and will continue to add to it! You are obviously very ignorant. What I have said is absolutely valid! You don't have the depth of intelligence to understand what I'm saying.
Bonding issues are very real and have enormous impact on the relationship between mother and child. It's not like saying 'I just don't get on with my child'. It's a fundamental inability to love that child for many reasons, that we will never know.

Depression has many guises and yes, it can make people kill. Themselves and others. It can make people act in many bizarre and out of character ways.
This is turning into a virtual stoning of this woman and I don't think that's right.

The reason I ask if some of you read the Daily Fail is that there are all sorts of details about this womans life that are not available in the unbiased papers. Where are you getting your facts re neglect of the other kids and partying all weekend, coke taking?....

We don't know all the facts really do we?

popette You still haven't answered the question; would you be equally as defensive of a father who had committed this murder?

For your information, I haven't commented on other aspects of her parenting, why should I?

She attacked her 3 year old son, left him alone whilst he suffered a lonely, painful death , put his body in a suitcase then buried him.

It was a calculated, cold act from another human being, let alone his own mother and totally unforgivable.

I take it you are not in Scotland Popette? her lifestyle of partying and hanging out with drug dealers was widely reported up here when she was charged and when the trial came to court.

Bonding issues are very real and have enormous impact on the relationship between mother and child. It's not like saying 'I just don't get on with my child'. It's a fundamental inability to love that child for many reasons, that we will never know.

As has repetedly been said would your stance be the same if it was the father who had done this?

Calling posters 'ignorant' is ridiculous.

What about compassion for the child she killed? You seem to be full if compassion for the woman but rarely mention the child who was killed in a prolonged attack over a number if days.

I remember recently a man had strangled his wife to death but because she was nagging him beforehand, blowing up his phone with text messages. The judge decided the poor bloke must have been pushed to it and is only serving 5 years for prison.

The UK justice system is a joke so this sentencing does not surprise me at all. It actually makes me feel very ashamed to be British.

I don't defend anyone that has committed murder. I am defending the FACT that she had bonding issues with her child and was not coping. There is a big difference between a mothers bonding with her child and a fathers. Which is quite clearly why it's more shocking when a mother kills her child.

It is not a reason for killing a child. She didn't just 'snap' it was a prolonged hurrendous attack.

Not bonding with a child is not an excuse for this at all IMO.

People have bonding issues (mothers and fathers despite you feeling that this is a mothers only issue) People suffer depression. They don't do this.

You are trying to excuse and defend the unexcusable.

It is an utter insult to people with depression and mental health problems to blame this on mental health issues or a mother not receiving support.
She was an evil bitch who beat a child mercilessly. I don't understand how anyone can feel sorry for her.

popette I'm astounded that you continue to peddle the notion that her inability to bond with her child should be mitigation for how she killed him.

Ok so I'm gonna jump right in here and say that is a load of crap. You want to know about bonding issues being a real problem? (And please dear mn ladies, don't flame me for this cause I am trying my hardest to resolve this and it is a very difficult situation).

I don't have much of a bond with my daughter, mainly because of the shit I was put through as a child. I find it difficult to spend time with her and difficult to show affection but by fuck do I know to the very core of me that I love her. I just can't bond properly with her. Any mother worth the salt would go to councelling, seek help, do anything to make sure that their child, no matter how difficult it feels to be near them sometimes, IS NOT AFFECTED. There is so much help out there for mothers who have difficulty bonding with their children and my daughter is my child so you can be damn sure that I'm doing everything available to change this, including telling her every day how much I love her and how special she is to me.

Not being able to bond and having mental health issues does NOT mean you will harm your child or kill them. I suffer from chronic depression and my daughter has never been harmed by me, and she never will be.

This poor boys mother may have had bonding issues but she CHOSE to do nothing about it. She CHOSE to lift her hands to him and injure him. She CHOSE not to get any help for him. She is completely responsible and should have been left to rot in jail, but even if she does get out she is going to be one of the most hated women in scotland.

I'm aware fathers have bonding issues, as I mentioned already. It is different though. That's a fact.
There is an awful lot of ignorance on the subject of bonding and depression it seems. And a lot of over emotional reactionary behaviour.

Think where this woman is, physically, mentally, and socially, and leave the hating to the DM and to her fellow-inmates. Please!

Well said feeling.

Think where this woman is, physically, mentally, and socially, and leave the hating to the DM and to her fellow-inmates. Please!

Think about where she is? What about thinking where that poor child is and who put him there?

And a lot of over emotional reactionary behaviour.

Well over this I am happy to be have emotional reactors behaviour. A child has been killed. I reserve my compassion for that child who was killed, deprived of life. Not the person who put him there.

Popette I have worked in mental health for over 20 years. In that time, I have known two women with mental health problems who have killed their babies. The first was severely depressed and smothered her baby with a pillow before hanging herself. She left a note to say that she had taken her baby with her as she didn't want to leave him alone. Tragic as it was, it was clear that she was doing what she thought was best for her child.
The other baby died in circumstances I don't want to describe as they're too upsetting but the mother was found to be floridly psychotic at the time and therefore not guilty due to diminished responsibility and spent 18 months in a secure hospital.
I believe that anyone can have moments and snap under stress - I suffered severe PND after DD was born and tried to struggle on. One day I just snapped and shook her - not hard but it terrified me that I was capable of that. I got help the next day and was seen by the crisis team for 2 months.
Millions of parents suffer with depression - they don't behave like this. I have been hospitalised with severe depression. In the weeks before I was eventually sectioned, I had no interest in my children and wanted them to go away and leave me alone but I managed to do the bare minimum for them and I never even thought if harming them and I certainly didn't want to go out clubbing. Unfortunately, people with depression do kill themselves. Depression on its own does NOT make people harm others. Your comments are offensive to the millions of us who battle with mental health problems but put our children first and are loving parents.

As someone said upthread, if she had snapped, hit him once and that had caused his death there would be far more compassion and empathy for her.

It's the prolonged attacks and the planning of hiding his body and then lying to the police about his whereabouts. She was trying to save her own skin. She had no thought what so ever for that child.

And I say that as someone who does usually have compassion for mothers who kill their children whilst suffering from acute postnatal depression. The vast majority of women who do this, don't try to cover it up as they're too traumatised. She managed to carry on as normal for days, planned what to do with the body and pretended he'd wondered off.

It's the planning and lying that many people can't forget when asked to "feel compassion for her"

Oh dear popette! It's not the daily mail it was widely reported at the time in all the media! Her mother and neighbours had all reported this woman