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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think this should have been murder? Warning: potential triggers. Distressing content. [title edited by MNHQ]

371 replies

wannaBe · 25/07/2014 16:57

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28483061\warning, distressing content}
So it's culpable homicide because she didn't mean to kill him? ok then. Hmm I hope there is a special place in hell for people like her.

OP posts:
LeoandBoosmum · 26/07/2014 00:57

Compassion, andrewofgg?
That child died in excrutiating pain! His so-called mother will have listened to him scream, cry, beg, plead and done NOTHING to spare his torturous agony! You should think of that before you advocate compassion for a woman devoid of pity and whose actions and behaviour, after she murdered her son, were aimed only at saving her own skin! In those two days, instead of sending police on a wild goose chase while her son suffered the most unimaginable pain, she could have sought help for him...she DID NOT!

I am generally a soft-hearted person but there are two groups I cannot abide: child abusers/killers and those who hurt defenceless animals... Rosdeep Adekoya does not deserve any sympathy or compassion. She beat her own child to death with her own two fists. This child was basically her whipping boy, her punchbag, the tiny unfortunate who was the target for all her bitterness, frustration and anger. She is nothing but a bully and I hope she'll go to prison - a nice tough one - for a LONG LONG time...I hope every day she's thoroughly miserable and constantly looking over her shoulder. I'll save all my tears for Mikaeel.

Andrewofgg · 26/07/2014 06:47

Leo Compassion is not rationed. You don't run out of it.

I share your loathing of any sort of harm done to children - this is MN, jammed with decent people, mostly parents, mostly mothers, if not parents then they want to be.

But I try, not always successfully, not to write off any member of our species. And I don't want to see this woman become a sort of latter-day Myra Hindley.

adsy · 26/07/2014 07:13

*I don't think it's very fair to call someone 'evil' when we know very little about the matter. The woman may have been mentally ill for all we know. Every time I see something like this I think 'There but for the Grace of God go I' [sic]. Who knows how you could be affected by having a baby or other things going on in your life?

I'm not saying she's completely innocent but we ought to remember that there normally reasons and justifications for crimes, however twisted and misguided, and crimes like this are rarely committed purely out of badness or 'evil'ness*

would you say the same about a man?
How about Huntley? Does he deserve compassion because you wouldn't do that sort of thing unless you were mentally ill?
What about the three involved in the baby P case? Should we feel sorry for them?
You are very naïve if you think some people aren't simply nasty pieces of work

SignYourName · 26/07/2014 07:33

I'm usually one of the first calling for empathy and understanding, but I am finding it very very hard to find compassion for this woman. Her behaviour towards her son is akin to people who repeatedly beat animals - because they can, because they're bigger and stronger, because they need to take out their frustrations on something (or someone, in poor Mikaeel's case) smaller and weaker who won't fight back. A cruel bully, in other words.

She obviously recognised her feelings weren't normal, as evidenced by her Google searches, so why not go the next step and seek proper help? If she thought she was at risk of treating him so differently as to cause him harm, she had avenues available to her: GP, social services since she was known to them. There is no justification for the path she chose.

TheLovelyBoots · 26/07/2014 07:48

I don't believe in "evil" either, but this woman made a series of decisions that reflect her lack of humanity. If there's ever a reason to lock someone up for a very long time, this case is it.

I'm not extremely interested in her rehabilitation.

This poor child, it's a very hard story to read.

Pinkrose1 · 26/07/2014 08:52

No, compassion is not rationed but its sometimes not deserved.

People are making an erroneous assumption of mental illness because their own caring nature cannot imagine a mother behaving like this and be mentally healthy.

There are sadly people with a personality disorder who are not not mentally ill but lacking in normal human feelings. The important point is they are fully aware their feelings and actions are wrong (in 'normal' society) but they still carry on.

There are thousands of people with a personality disorder ranging from inadequate alcoholics sleeping in doorways to highly intelligent murderous psychopaths.

They can also suffer with depression. The point is they know there actions are wrong but they don't care. They know society will condemn them for these actions, so they hide them. They are convincing liars and planners. All of which fit this mother. Is that evil? I don't like the religious overtone, but in simple terms, if you consider the damage she has done, I would say yes.

Showy · 26/07/2014 09:04

"Compassion is often regarded as having an emotional aspect to it, though when based on cerebral notions such as fairness, justice and interdependence, it may be considered rational in nature and its application understood as an activity based on sound judgment"

To be utterly clear, having compassion for the perpetrator of a crime does not mean you somehow chip into the absolute abhorrence you feel for the crime or the desperation you feel for the victim. Compassion can be a very considered choice.

Trying to understand why something happened and more importantly, prevent it from happening again, is not justifying the crime in the first place. Conversely, crying out that somebody is inhuman and evil does try and justify it in a sense. What we are doing when we label somebody evil, is essentially saying they are not like us. We would never do that. It is so far outside our experience that she has ceased to be human. She is inhuman. She is evil. It was outside of society's control. There was this awful, driving force over which we have no control. It would be reassuring if this was true but as somebody else said, it's as nonsensical as believing not catching a flight which was later shot down means you are somehow blessed. She was human. She was on the very, very end of a spectrum. Her behaviour was rare and awful but she was one of us and might be one of us again one day.

It is entirely possible and documented that a mother may have entirely different feelings for one of her children btw. Somebody asked earlier.

I do have a friend who suffered from psychosis following the birth of one of her children. She is very fortunate that she comes from a loving and supportive family, had an educated and aware husband and intervention was swift and effective. She is very clear that without that intervention, her actions towards her child would have been abhorrent in the end. She is not evil. She is an educated, loving, compassionate woman. She is as human as I am. Now I am of course not comparing. I am not saying Rosdeep was mentally ill. I do not know the facts of the case. I am merely saying that sometimes humans do despicable and incomprehensible things. Why they do them is something we should make an effort to understand and more importantly, prevent. The rational side of me refuses to just stick a label of evil on it and to wish ill upon the perpetrator. Because that's not justice. There is no justice here. It might make somebody feel better to channel their disgust, horror and outrage into that kind of wish but it is rationally of no use.

You don't have to feel compassionate. That is your right and I don't question it at all. But don't dismiss people who do want to understand and don't wish pain and suffering on perpetrators of a crime and don't assume they don't care about the victims.

blubirdy · 26/07/2014 09:15

Leo, Compassion is not rationed. You don't run out of it.

neither is water rationed, but I still don't think it's right to waste it

and I sure as fuck won't waste one ounce of my compassion on that evil cow

KitschinSynch · 26/07/2014 09:35

I am having trouble feeling compassion for her to be honest, beating a 3 year old fgs. I wonder where his father was or grandparents..., she has 4 other children the oldest being ten, who is looking after them now, and I wonder what they witnessed. All very tragic.

KitschinSynch · 26/07/2014 09:42

I just read your post snowy thanks for that. I had no idea that post natal psychosis happened, so am grateful to you for pointing it out.

scottishmummy · 26/07/2014 11:57

Compassion isn't allocated on basis of deserving or undeserving.its an emotional reaction
Considering this case for some it'll evoke compassion..others will not feel compassionate
Its an individual response,its not wrong.but you're not compelled to feel it either

Compassion is an attempt to understand triggers.precedents,timeline
Its not any way excusing or minimising the behaviour

Pumpkinpositive · 26/07/2014 12:09

My understanding was that the Crown doesn't have to show intent to secure a conviction for murder. Rather the Crown has to show "malicious aforethought" or some such to cause serious harm. Is that incorrect? Confused

Hence the reason that tosser who killed the toddler with an air gun rifle from a nearby window was convicted of murder in Glasgow some years ago.

It was accepted that he neither meant to shoot the little boy (he was aiming for the child's older brother) or kill anyone. It was his idea of a "joke". Nevertheless he was rightly convicted of murder on the grounds he showed wilful disregard for safety (paraphrase) and should have foreseen the possible consequences of his actions.

On the face of it, air gun tosser seems - marginally - less culpable than the present case, since her actions involved sustained abuse of a small child over several days and failure to take even basic steps to save his life.

You would have to think her mental health factored into the decision to accept a plea for culpable homicide.

Nevertheless, I suspect the inmates of Corton Vale may not be as appreciative of the finer nuances of the differences between CH and murder. Hmm

Heartsandspades · 26/07/2014 12:10

Menatally ill or not, it is wrong to kill a child and I don't think there is any circumstance where this could be justified.
She is an evil lady and I hope she suffers for what she has done to that poor baby!

scottishmummy · 26/07/2014 12:15

No one has justified this,at all.thats simply an attempt to make out woolly liberals are making excuses,justification

Pumpkinpositive · 26/07/2014 12:17

Menatally ill or not, it is wrong to kill a child and I don't think there is any circumstance where this could be justified

I don't think many people would try to justify the murder of a child. Hmm

But mental illness can in certain circumstances represent a partial or complete defence in law. Defendants can be found not guilty by reason of insanity (and usually sent straight to a psychiatric unit). And there are good reasons for this.

scottishmummy · 26/07/2014 12:46

Compassion in psychiatric practice drives good practice.Pnd is an example
There is now an awareness of pnd,perinatal teams,and postnatal support
Pnd is usually managed in community.but if requiring hospital there are mother& baby units to maintain rapport and bond and aid recovery

Other conditions such as ASD is now not simply treated as naughty child.
driven by compassion and enquiry to understand this has positively changed practice
We need compassion in health and social care to drive good practice

Vevvie · 26/07/2014 12:48

His grandmother reported her to social services more than once as she left them overnight/while weekends on more than one occasion. They shouldn't have been returned to her.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for her. She brutally beat him, left him for days to die a slow, painful death and then dumped him. She knew what she was doing was wrong or she wouldn't have led everyone on a merry dance searching for him. Her only regret is that she got caught. I can't understand why they let her go and see him the night before his funeral, after letting him die in the most undignified way possible. Evil woman.

Poor little boy.

Pumpkinpositive · 26/07/2014 12:55

Her only regret is that she got caught.

You psychic or something? Got tonight's winning lottery numbers?

Vevvie · 26/07/2014 13:25

Presumably, she didn't want to get caught or she wouldn't have gone to the lengths she did not to get caught! She could have called for help rather than go the lengths she did.

DiaDuit · 26/07/2014 13:35

showy excellent post at 09:04. I agree with everything you say in it.

DiaDuit · 26/07/2014 13:38

And scottishmummy too. Great posts. Totally agree.

FreudiansSlipper · 26/07/2014 13:45

I feel terribly sorry for any woman trying to bring up 5 children when she is struggling which obviously she was. I do not see her as evil more that she was not coping and struggling with her life. Where the other parent of these children supportive it does not seem so by the reports

That does not mean I feel less sadness about her son or horrified at what happened

It's a terribly sad story and avoidable which makes it all so much sadder

DiaDuit · 26/07/2014 13:58

I really hope this doesnt put other mothers off seeking help if they experience difficulties bonding with or loving their child. It was actually a very big fear of mine when i was pregnant with my second child. I just couldnt understand how i would be able to love it as until that point my ds1 was all i cared for. I really worried that i would see the baby is an imposter on mine and ds's relationship. I was lucky in that, although i suffered PND, it didnt manifest itself in the way i feared. I think this must be quite common though.

Pumpkinpositive · 26/07/2014 14:03

Presumably, she didn't want to get caught or she wouldn't have gone to the lengths she did not to get caught! She could have called for help rather than go the lengths she did.

That's not what I was referring to. I referred to your claim about her "only regret."

You have no idea what she regrets or doesn't regret.

Heartsandspades · 26/07/2014 16:53

I do feel sympathy for a woman trying to bring up 5 kids alone. But not one who subjects one of those 5 children to what she did to that little boy. Why not tell some one she can't cope? Or even to give them away would be kinder than what she did!

I just can't understand how to feel anything other than hate and disgust at some one like that? It's probably quite an emotional response to it but having a DS the same age it's the only response I have.

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