To think a whole class except 3 party sends a very pointed message.....

[starterforeight]

I'm trying to get my head round this as it is affecting the way I see someone I know well.

I'd rather not say which part I am currently playing in all of this so as to get a truly non biased opinion.

The children concerned are more than old enough to notice who is and isn't invited to a party and much discussion takes place about who's going, what they're going to wear, what they're going to do.

Have dipped into this thread, and for what it is worth, I never had the problem of my dd being bullied, but out of six girls in her class, one was particularly difficult, but all us parents encouraged our dds to include her both in the playground and at parties. Sometimes my dd complained about this but I think she is a much better person for this experience. In fact, she does well in her professional life because she is a peace-maker to helps to avoid others falling victim of cliques.

Children have and should have lots of rights, but we the adults are in charge of making them good members of society.

I wouldnt think of any child's birthday party as being so special that it would be ruined by being kind.

I can't think of any bullying situation that would be helped by excluding the bully.

I think the victims of bullying are more likely to be excluded than the perpetrators and I would be doing some digging if my child 'just didn't play' with somebody they wanted to exclude.

The child who is a bully has to learn that there are consequences to their actions... they should not be included in fun treats at the expense of the child they are bullying, but that's just my opinion.

My opinion too.

My DCs were lucky in that they weren't bullied but in my teaching career I have encountered some nasty examples. Often the bully's parents refused to acknowledge there was a problem. Which made it even harder to deal with in school.

If I'd been a parent of one of the children bullied there is no way I'd invite the bully to my child's party.

Most bullies know exactly what they are doing and to reward their behaviour by inviting them to the parties of the DCs they are vile to is just daft.

I have excluded bullies from my children's birthday party. It has meant the whole class was invited except two children.

If op is the teacher she would be wise to
Keep a closer eye on the class dynamics next school year, rather than " shunning" the parent if that child.

Perhaps it is wrong to show kindness to the unkind as a default? How can they learn acceptable behaviour if there are no consequences to their behaviour if everybody protect their feelings rather than their victims and turning a blind eye?

Fairly confident no bullying involved, jungle drums and all that

Second post from OP.

I use ?sp a lot and I'm not a teacher.

I know jumping to assumptions is easy but they often on MN become an established fact on a thread ignoring what has been said

Thread seems to have gone off on a bullying theme.

There is no bullying involved by any of the 3 excluded children, if anything they will, along with others, have been potential targets over their time to date in school. Yet again, at the risk of providing identifying information, at least one of the excluded has been commended for "kindness to others and setting a good example by being a good friend" (exact wording amended slightly obviously).

OP at the end of the day, you don't know the real reason they haven't been invited. You can only guess. Things could be going on that you are unaware of.

It wouldn't bother me or my child. As long as my child was able to attend his close friends parties, it would be fine.

Possibly these three children are unkind or harsh with the party child? Maybe there are underlying issues adults are unaware of.

Everyone seems to assume these 3 kids deserve not to be asked....sort of victim blaming ( they must be bullies)

my son was often not asked as he was a bit of a geeky loner who got bullied. The bullies got asked.

I think it is more likely the 3 are socially awkward/ "uncool".

If there are "issues" would not a more effective strategy be going into the school and asking for their help. Not exactly sure how exclusion, possibly many weeks or even months after an incident, is going to teach the excluded child improved behaviour when they probably will not be able to link the two things. Imo it is more likely that an obvious exclusion like this would increase animosity between the two sides.

As a parent you are also likely to hear only your child's version of events which may have varying degrees of accuracy or reality. ds2 has very poor social skills and does say horrible things to other children on occasion (we are working on this). It does not stop him being deeply hurt when others say the same things back to him. He is not a bully because he simply does not have the social skills to be a bully but I can see how some of the things he has done might be construed as such. Equally, there have been many incidents where I would say he has been bullied himself.

There was a particularly lovely incident at school where a group of his classmates decided it would be a good game to throw mud at him. Luckily, I witnessed it (not quite sure how they didn't think they would be spotted) & got the teacher to sort it out quickly. These were all the popular boys in the class I might add rather than the misfits like ds2. He might well have said something to provoke the attack I missed that bit but it still does not justify it. To my mind this is what bullying is, mob aggression against a loner, and parents reinforcing the message that is OK to ostracize others only encourages this.

I agree with the last two posts. I guess people are coming at this from two sides, one being empathising with being bullied or hurt in some way so there is an automatic assumption that this child should be ostracised as a punishment (getting your own back)

The two posts I meant were onein and brave

But I also agree with Lego

this child should be ostracised as a punishment

Not at all. It just should not be allowed to cause the birthday child distress on his birthday.

What is the point of even celebrating a birthday if your bully is present to torment you?

My son was saying "If X has to be invited to my party, I am not celebrating my party"

In many years of being at school myself and having my own children at school I have never come across a 'bully' who didn't either hold the social power to make excluding them counter productive or have problems that went beyond 'bullying'.

I can think of children when I was at school and in my children's schools who are more likely to lash out, be rough or say and do the 'wrong' thing. Basically they are hard work. Some people might conveniently write this kind of child off as a 'bully' but none of them deserve(d) to be excluded from a whole class party.

My children know that they are loved and valued without a special day where they get to exclude people.

So, to answer the OP:

Yes, it sends a pointed message (that the parent organising the party has an agenda, or is disorganised, or is an idiot.)

And No, I would never ever do it.

If there were ANY reasons that my DC did not wish to invite only one/two/three others to their party, then DC would not have a WHOLE CLASS party. They would have a smaller/alternative sort of celebration.

It is unacceptable to exclude a minority, it is not modelling anything good to your child. There are ways to respect your child's feelings, have a celebration and still not be an arse.

We don't do whole class parties, we only invite good friends and relatives. I don't think parents should be obliged to cater for unwanted guests so "they don't feel left out". For social inclusion there is school, there is playground, etc. But birthday parties belong to those celebrating.

But quint there is a big difference between not inviting a child (I wouldn't because as you say it's meant to be a fun party for the birthday child) and inviting everyone BUT them.

That's the issue.

Agree no squirrels.

I am probably hardline, but I would not see the big deal if the excluded child is bullying the birthday child. Excluding one is terrible, unless there is any bullying involved.

Realistically speaking not all invitees are going to the party, so they wont all be talking about it beforehand or afterwards.

Does not have to be hardcore bullying. My DS1 was once excluded from a good friend's party because of certain unpleasant behaviour (swearing). Thats taught him a real life lesson about consequences of being a potty-mouth.

Again, I suppose it comes down to the fact that I have never come across these 'bullies' who are neither leader of the cool kids/have an sn/are having a temporary spat with your child where it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other/or are just a bit awkward.

Having a whole class party where you exclude any one of these children is going to be counter productive or cruel.