To think a whole class except 3 party sends a very pointed message.....

[starterforeight]

I'm trying to get my head round this as it is affecting the way I see someone I know well.

I'd rather not say which part I am currently playing in all of this so as to get a truly non biased opinion.

The children concerned are more than old enough to notice who is and isn't invited to a party and much discussion takes place about who's going, what they're going to wear, what they're going to do.

I was only ever invited to one girls party.

I had almost no friends. But no friends was better than fake friends. People who didn't talk to me anyway and just stole the few friends I did have.

I knew they didn't like me going by the fact they never chose me for anything and laughed at my hair/other things.

Still, sneaking out to watch horror movies with one of the few girls worth bothering with was far more fun. :o

Maryz,

I have been on both sides of the situation. An adult is mature enough to handle a bully at a party but a child isn't necessarily. Should they feel anxious about their own party because they're being forced to spend time with someone they just don't get on with? Like I said in a previous post, if I were the mother of the birthday child I'd want an explanation as to why they didn't want to invite someone and possibly use it as a way to make things better.

An end of school party is very different from a birthday party. A birthday party means the focus should be on the child who's birthday it is. End of school party is about celebrating the entire class. In the latter I certainly wouldn't want anyone excluded.

Of course we don't know if it is the parent saying 'you're not inviting....' Or the child saying 'I don't want to invite...'. Just speculation from us all.

Why don't you just ask a parent of the 'party holder'

Have the courage if your convictions & enlighten people if they are ignorant. You may find out a perfectly good reason & swing your sympathies. Unlikely granted, but possible

Sadly my child who was never invited to a party from reception to year six was the child being bullied and the children feared being bullied themselves by inviting my son but the lovely parents at the school made sure the buillies had a invite

Oh and only two children out of 20 showed up at my sons 6th party and he never bothered asking for a party since

When children are excluded from social events it usually isn't just one party and the reason for exclusion is more likely to be social awkwardness or difference than bullying.

Caring, competent adults don't exclude children or allow their children to exclude others.

In answer to OP- if you are absolutely sure your facts are 100% correct, then yes I would say it is sending a pointed message. From what you've said, I can't think what it is. Again, if what you say is 100% correct, then it would seem that the person you are discussing has been unreasonable to exclude these 3 children for no discernible reason.

In response to the other topic being discussed, I think it is acceptable to exclude a child who is bullying your DC, even if it is a whole class party. I don't think their are many other good reasons though. I do realise it can happen by mistake though, and I think too much can be read into these situations if you put your mind to it. Some people like to be outraged and offended though.

I wouldn't want my child to have to be worried or anxious about the bully being there- even if I could "police" the party to stop it actually happening. Although I would have thought "policing" this is in itself not always easy as some bullying can be quite underhand and not at all obvious, or done where it's not easily picked up. After all, if it's so easy to pick up, why does it so often go undetected by teachers and even by parents? So I don't think I could be 100% sure I could stop it.

It's not fair on the child being bullied. I don't see excluding a bully as bullying- I would advise my child to avoid the bully, not try to become their best friend, unless the bullying was sorted out. And if DD wants a whole class (except bully) party, and I was willing to accommodate a whole class party in principle (I do, but only 10 in DDs class, wouldn't if there were many more), then I wouldn't either make her cut the numbers or invite the bully. I might discuss it with bully's parents, so they knew why, if I knew them/knew how to contact them.

The child who is a bully has to learn that there are consequences to their actions... they should not be included in fun treats at the expense of the child they are bullying, but that's just my opinion.

DS is 1 so won't come up against this for a while.

But given the choice between him inviting a few kids he doesn't like to a 'whole class' party, and him/me being the cause for a small child feeling excluded for whatever reason, I know which I would choose.

And I would choose the first, all the while thanking my lucky stars that I was not the parent of an excluded child.

I hope we will not be in that position. Therefore I certainly won't put anyone else in that position.

This thread has made me cry (pregnant and hormonal, but still, can't bear the thought of a left out child).

Starter - taking your post at face value.
It is very mean, and completely devoid of both etiquette and good manners.

How can you know for sure though that there is no bullying?

My son was bullied by a boy in his class. I told nobody. It was not obvious to anybody else that my son had problems with one particular child. His teacher had not noticed. My son had also never been invited to this particular child's parties. This boy had been to my sons earlier parties, and ruined it for him by exhibiting some quite spectacularly bad behaviour. I told nobody. It would come as a complete surprise to all the other school mums if my son were to have a party and not invite this one particular boy.

Maybe the mum in question is simply as discrete as me, , and it has come to the point where her child is putting their foot down about 3 particular children for whatever reason?

Slithylove

I see your point, but why should not upsetting the bully lead you to do things which would upset your child? I agree excluding just one child/just a few children as your DC just isn't close friends with them isn't nice though. Although if DD was bullying another child, I hope the parent would let me know so it could be tackled, rather than just not inviting them. But if DD was bullying a child, and I knew, then I'd be understanding of why she wasn't invited to their party and would discuss why she wasn't invited.

I would try my best to manage it in a way that did not upset my child.

E.g. a smaller party, talking to the bully's parents, etc.

Rose tinted glasses perhaps, but I just cant bear the thought of DS being the excluded one.

Sometimes talking to the bullys parents wont work. They may not be receptive to the thought of their precious child being a bully. Or, they may not care. In our case they knew what their child had done to mine on his birthday party, and were miffed that my son made himself scarce from his own party for a bit (he was hurt and upset), they said my child was rude for not accepting the apology they forced their child to reluctantly give.

yes, but if your DS was bullying another child, surely you would not expect to him to be invited to that child's party?

And i agree with quintessentially- some parents won't accept their child is bullying another child, or are unable to put a stop to it. what do you do in these situations? plan everything around not potentially upsetting the bully?

I don't know.

I just know I can't exclude one child. If that means a party of 15 instead of 30, then so be it. Not saying anyone who does is wrong, just that I assume if a child is a bully, there may be a reason for that, and I don't want to make their lives worse.

Being a bully can't be fun. If DS was a bully, I'd be gutted, and him not going to parties would be the least of our troubles I suspect.

Whole class parties sound miserable for the parents anyway!

I was the one bullied at school, therefore I was the one left out and with no friends. Like fishwifes example.

So I couldn't exclude a child from a significant group.

I think the importance is the birthday child, that they get to celebrate with children that make them feel happy and secure, rather than the birthday childs parents pussyfooting around the bully and considering the bully's feelings above their own childs!

I just cant believe that there would be no particular reason these three kids are kept out. I believe it is more likely that the OP is not in the loop (as much as she thinks she is) about the situation involved with these three kids and the birthday child.

One of the girls who used to be in my DDs friends older sister's class was bullying the older sister. They were around 9 at this time.

This girl was also bullying a few other girls to a lesser degree and seemed to pick on everyone from time to time (including younger children). She was badly behaved at parties, which her parents had been told. On one occasion she slapped the girl whose birthday it was, and when the father was told he said "I don't think she deserves a party bag then" and that was it- no making his daughter apologise or anything like that. Her parents also knew about the bullying but didn't seem to fully take it on board and certainly an intervention they may have made didn't make much difference.

After the slapping incident, she got invited to very few parties and that included whole class parties (small classes- 10-12 in each class at DDs school). And I don't think any of these parents WBU.

I don't see why anyone should have forced their child into having a really small party for her sake, or forced their child to invite her. maybe she was upset at being left out, but I think her behaviour warranted being left out. "Including her" would not have improved her behaviour (as it demonstrably hadn't at previous parties) and just makes the other children have to put up with her bad behaviour. I would not have a child who behaved like that in my home, or at any event where I was responsible.

She has since been asked to leave the school, so don't know if she has improved.

In the situation of bullying and whole class parties, my response would be to invite bullying child/children but also to insist their parents/responsible adults accompany them and look out for their behaviour. Regardless of age, to be honest. Cos I would be damn sure that the bullying had been reported and the child's parents were responsible for keeping their kid in line prior to a party "invite-or-not" scenario. If my DC was being bullied, I would want it dealt with, not swept under the carpet.

I'd hate to exclude one or two children, regardless of behaviour, on the basis that a whole class party is just that - whole class. But if my DC was worried/upset/uncomfortable about one or two kids I would make sure the situation was dealt with outside of a party scenario, and that they understood that the bully got invited too but only under certain conditions e.g. having a responsible adult there.

I would ensure my DC understood that two wrongs don't make a right. Alternatively DC could scale back party ambitions and invite fewer people to avoid being in the situation entirely.

I thin that regardless of anything, inviting a whole class MINUS a couple of DC cannot ever be considered fair, whatever the circumstances.

If a child is old enough to notice not being invited, they should also be old enough to put to and two together and understand that their behaviour is the reason they are not invited, if there is bullying involved.

I think op is almost certainly the teacher - unusual use of (?sp) several times!
If so, then the children are v lucky to have someone so empathetic teaching them.

Would it be possible to approach the parent concerned and ask them if they were aware that only 3 children had been left out? (Even if you suspect that they do).

*(Even if you suspect that they are).

I think it depends whether you over think it. IMO it says that perhaps your kid is not that friendly with the kid having the party but then I am if the opinion that you get to invite who you want to your party not who other people think you should and the class bully can go whistle if they think their feelings would take precedence over those of my child.

I cannot believe a parent think sits acceptable to put their child in a situation where they are forced to spend what is supposed to be a treat for their birthday, a relaxed celebration with someone who is bullying them to spare the bullies feelings?

What that would tell me as a child is that my feelings are less important and my parent us happy to put me in a situation where I feel uncomfortable and threatened on my special day.

I don't think a child would feel anything negative at having a half or less class party though.

Not everyone can afford a whole class party, I'm sure those kids aren't missing out.

And it's a good way to avoid inviting the unwanted.