getting annoyed at botoxed friends getting told how young they look

[joshandjamie]

Yes, I probably am being unreasonable. And yes, I should remove my judgey pants from my overly clenched buttocks, BUT:

several of the mums from school who I hang out with have botox. And fillers. And liposuction and any other range of artificial beautifying processes beyond the normal hair, manis and make up. Each to their own. I would personally never do it because I worry about the safety side of things AND it feels like cheating.

What irritates me is that whenever they post pics of themselves on Facebook or even go out in real life, they always get loads of comments raving about how young they look, that they haven't aged a day since high school and that they're just getting more stunning by the minute. In contrast I look like the wrinkled crone in the corner.

It makes me want to yell: THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE PUMPED THEIR FACES FULL OF BOTOX!!!

I'm going to guess that that would be unreasonable to do. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to do it. Just once).

I realise this makes me sound like a huge cow and I know that they are perfectly entitled to do what they like and feel good about themselves when people notice. I just think it's slightly unfair that those of us who don't 'cheat' get viewed as being old or having let themselves go, if we don't go the botox route. Am I being unreasonable to feel this way?

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

I consider myself pretty average and don't have a particularly wide circle of friends and I know people with - 2 tummy tucks,a face lift, cosmetic dentistry,a boob reduction,2 gastric bands. It's becoming more and more common.

[joshandjamie]

To those asking why I say it's cheating, because that's what it feels like. They are cheating the natural aging process.

Women are under huge pressure to fit this perfect ideal - just look at the airbrushing that goes on. Women are expected to look young and beautiful - the press, magazines, tv, advertisers all push this. So when some women use botox and surgery to make themselves look more perfect so that they can meet this ideal, it perpetuates that stereotype and fucked up thinking that we are somehow not meant to age.

It means those of us who just let ourselves age naturally, look older by comparison instead of normal.

[WorraLiberty]

So how do you square that with all the men who use botox?

It's not cheating any more than dying grey hair is 'cheating'

Personally I think injecting drugs into your skin is a silly thing to do, but it's not 'cheating', they're just making themselves look better in their eyes.

The same as wearing make-up can make people look younger...or hair extensions etc.

[Floisme]

I don't think this thread is nasty at all, I think it's interesting. I like make up and clothes and I try to look as good as I can for my age but personally I draw the line when medical practitioners, as opposed to beauticians become involved.

[Viviennemary]

I don't think this thread is nasty at all. But we've all seen the long term effects of botox aren't good. If there was a magic cream I could rub on my face and wake up tomorrow looking ten or even 15 years younger I would use it if it had no side effects. But botox is a poison and should it be injected into people's faces. No. I think in the future people will look back in horror at some of the things done in the name of beauty.

[Foolishlady]

I don't think Botox is cheating any more than make up, good hair and maintenance are cheating. As we get older some of us like to get a bit more help - certainly I try to do a bit more grooming as I get older and certainly this meant I looked better at 30 than 20 (and although starting the downhill slide now looks wise at 35 am still more attractive than I was at 16 (real geeky ugly duckling)! All this improved knowledge of what suits me re clothes and make up, losing a bit of weight could all be considered cheating but I'm glad of it. Haven't done Botox but certainly considering it. Unfortunately I'm not the kind of woman who would notice if other women had got it done (only notice the seriously obvious American style surgery!) so I don't know objectively if it is always noticeable to the gimlet eyed or whether it is only if it is done badly.

[Floisme]

I'm with the posters who say it's a feminist issue. If you're a woman and past your mid thirties, looking good means only one thing: looking younger. There's a massive industry making zillions by playing on our fears of ageing and then selling us crap to 'fix' it. I understand the argument about hair and make up and clothes but, for me personally, they're different because I've enjoyed them since I was a teenager and I'm not being enticed to buy them purely because of my age if you see what I mean. I'd like to think that I can look my age and still look good and they help me do that. I agree it's a fine line and it's interesting to hear where people draw it.

[Staryyeyedsurprise]

stopgap
I've spent the last eleven years living in Botox and plastic surgery central (NYC) and on average I would say that having Botox automatically makes you look 44, whether you're actually 34 or 54. I don't think it makes someone look younger, and I know people who've been to top, top plastic surgeons. I think it has a weird homogenising effect

Was just going to say this!

When I look at someone with botox, I don't think they look "young" I think they look blandly same-ish, regardless of how old they actually are. If I don't know their age, I always think they are older and have been "done" and more often than not, I realise they are significantly younger than I thought.

On a boasty aside, as someone who has never had a tan due to pale skin and learning as a teenager that no matter how much I sunbathe I will only ever go red and back to white so I'm better avoiding the sun altogether, I'm finally reaping the rewards in my late 30s and starting to look comparatively young.

[TheFirmament]

Agree with Paxtecum, the possibility that botox is a really bad idea seems totally obvious! I'm always amazed they didn't even bother to give it a better name. "BoTOX"?? Like that's something I'd want to inject?

I do think there's a difference between doing your hair and nails and liking clothes, and plastic surgery/injections. Those things are invasive and carry a risk. If you're doing invasive, risky things to yourself in the name of beauty I think things have gone a bit awry. Whether you're male or female - but the pressure on women to look young is greater as others have said.

I'm sucked in myself too because I've always looked young for my age (like my mum and granddad - it's genetic) and I do feel happy about it. OTOH I would never want to do anything that gave me that unnatural, shiny stretched look. I would much rather look older and look like myself, as time goes on, that have that homogenous "work done" look.

To go back to OP I wouldn't be jealous. These women are caught up in a rollercoaster of repeatedly injecting their faces and then desperately seeking approval on FB. You are so well out of it.

[Suzannewithaplan]

Where do we all draw the line on the cheating issue?

Why do we feel that say moisturizers, make up and a flattering haircut are just maintenance but botox, fillers are cheating.

Would a person who has botox and fillers consider another who has a face lift to be a cheat.

Is it cheating to be a bit obsessive about exercise and healthy eating?

[TheFirmament]

I'm not sure I have a "cheating" line, it's more of a "self-loathing" line. If a woman feels she has to stick needles in or carve up her own face to look younger, then for me that's OTT and puts me off that person a bit. I also think as others have said it makes everyone look the same, and I can't respect someone who just wants to look like everyone else or some cookie-cutter template.

(Though I recognise some procedures like a breast reduction can have a massive impact on your life and I wouldn't say all surgery is inherently wrong - but generally I find cosmetic surgery worrying)

I don't think anything is cheating in that you can do what you like, I dye my hair for example, obviously that's a deception in some sense, but for me it's about self-expression and fun, and it's reversible.

[Suzannewithaplan]

The language used is interesting
You say'stick needles in or carve up her own face'
This is pejorative, you could just say 'has botox or surgery'

But instead of saying 'I put toxic artificial chemicals on my hair' you merely say 'I dye my hair'

[Suzannewithaplan]

Botox is reversible btw, it wears off.

[Shockers]

A beautiful young colleague of mine has just had her boobs and lips done because she felt ugly beside her botoxed, filled and big plastic bosomed friends. The irony of it is, she's the youngest of her friendship circle... they would probably have given their eye teeth to look as fresh and gorgeous as her. It makes me sad every time I look at her.

[Suzannewithaplan]

Doesn't hair dye, make up, fashion also make everyone look the same?

I'm not arguing for or against any cosmetic enhancements, more trying to point out that the distinctions we make are artificial.

Perhaps it comes down to affordability?
Those who can't afford XYZ treatment feel that those who can are cheating inasmuch as they have an unfair advantage?

[Staryyeyedsurprise]

Suzannewithaplan
Botox is reversible btw, it wears off

I don't think wearing off is the same as reversible though? I don't think 2 days after having Botox you could change your mind
and have it taken out (or can you?).

[weatherall]

As women, we can't win.

Society tells us looking young is compulsory. So we cleanse, tone, moisturise, deodorise, shave, exfoliate, dye hair, paint nails, take 20 50 selfies and pick the best for our Facebook profile picture.

It is all 'cheating'.

There doesn't seem to be any logic about what is deemed ok and what is cheating like Botox, fillers, surgery.

Make up and skin care products often have carcinogens in them. Check packaging for sodium laurel sulphate.

So the argument that make up is ok but Botox isn't does fall down.

Women have been beautifying ourselves for thousands of years. It's not some modern construct.

Personally I do find a therapeutic benefit of 'pampering' myself. I do myself up sometimes, I find the process relaxing. I think if I felt I had to do it everyday is find it oppressive though.

Like stary I stayed out of the sun when I was younger so I look younger than a school friend who's had Botox. I do wear make up and dye my hair on and off so people maybe think I've had Botox.

Maybe I will in the future. I think women slagging off other women who had this or that done is self defeating.

It's patriarchy making us fight between ourselves rather than question why we are having these debates.

The 'problem' is not the women who have Botox but the toxic misogynistic society we are living in.

[TheLovelyBoots]

I agree 100% with SuzanneWAPlan. Every shred of artifice that women (and men) submit to is just a point on a spectrum. You could probably make the argument that going under general anesthetic is a meaningful distinction, but possibly I'm biased (because that's my own no-go zone).

[noddyholder]

I love that people who don't use it feel so superior and cite how they were spending time doing other more enjoyable and worthy things while the vanity of others has somehow limited them and made them shallow! Each to their own Lots of people at the renal unit I attend have been having botox since it was first available for bladder issues. In doses 1000x cosmetic doses and done very regularly and they seem ok.

[SarcyMare]

i am certain future generations will look upon botox the way we react when we we learn that Tudors used white lead on their face.

[Suzannewithaplan]

We are all just cash cows being milked by the beauty industry

[sebsmummy1]

I had Botox in the past and it definitely helped me look better, now I don't have it as I'm TTC and can't justify the expense.

I think you have to live your life according to your rules and let your friends make their own choices. As you all age you may find that some of your friends develop health problems, others suffer bereavements or tragedys. You just have no idea what might befall any of you. What's happening to your face becomes academic if you suddenly develop a life limiting condition.

So chin up, tits out, do your hair and put sine lippy on and enjoy life while your healthy.

[TheWordFactory]

My biggest issue with botox is the way its becoming normalised and aging is now seen as 'letting yourself go'... I fear for our poor daughters and what will be expected of them as the norm!

[sebsmummy1]

It's the natural depletion of collagen on the skin that creates lines and wrinkles and takes the fullness out of the face. Once they figure out how to restart collegen production again and suddenly all the wealthy gorgeous people of the world go back to plump faced teenagers I will have to admit I will be extremely jealous and bitter.

[Ponkernonsir]

I have Botox. It's bloody fantastic stuff. I have a frown line that makes me look miserable, and crows feet and it runs all of that out. I don't look "pumped up" because that's done with dermal fillers which I don't use. I look (with the exception of a more even skin tone) as good without makeup as I did when I was using concealer and foundation primers.