The question of inheritance

[tiggerkid]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is really the right thread for this but can't think of any other to discuss the topic of inheritance.

Recently my sister-in-law and her husband announced that she is pregnant with her 3rd child and because they need a bigger house to accommodate, they will be moving into my MIL's house, who has a much larger property. Naturally, they understand that this move will raise the issue of inheritance, so they decided to sell their house and give us a small proportion of the value of their house on the grounds that they will still need money to look after MIL and renovate her house to their taste. The house is currently decorated to MIL's taste and, apart from the fact that it's cosmetically old fashioned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. MIL is certainly happy with it the way it is because she's been doing various work on and off in keeping with her own taste.

At present, MIL doesn't need any looking after. She is in excellent health and is of sound mind, so as far as we are concerned, they only want to move in to extend their living space so to speak. Because they live nearer MIL, they've had plenty of opportunity to talk her into this idea and convince her that it will be paradise on Earth once they all move in together.

While I completely understand and agree that the party looking after ageing parent absolutely needs a bigger share of any inheritance, am I being unreasonable believing that 1) it should be a discussion involving all parties affected by such a decision 2) any agreed value of our share of inheritance should be based on the value of MIL's property rather than the smaller house that my sister-in-law is seeking to move out of? and 3) the question of keeping large sums of money to redecorate the house to sister-in-law's taste should be out of the question because it has nothing to do with looking after ageing parents?

Sorry for the long message but I just find it so unfair that my sis-in-law just decided to move into a bigger house to improve her living conditions and keep 80% of the value of their own house to do whatever they want to do without ever discussing it with us or giving us any opportunity to speak about this. MIL has only mentioned it to us in passing and doesn't want to discuss this any further because she wants to avoid confrontation. The only thing she said was: well you, guys, are financially better off than they are anyway, which made me even more annoyed and upset. If there is a reason why we are financially better off, it is because my husband and I work our butts off while my sister-in-law sits on her backside playing on Facebook all day long. It feels like MIL believes that we need to be punished and penalised for our hard work while my sister-in-law needs to be rewarded for her Facebook efforts.

I know in the end it is MIL's decision and, unfortunately, one that appears to be driven by my sister-in-law exploiting MIL's fear of being left alone in her old age. Although I doubt that we can do much to change the situation, I am struggling to keep discussing this with my husband as I don't want to upset him but I do need some emotional support and understanding, hence this post. Thank you, all.

Viviennemary, they aren't buying her house because they can't. Their house is worth less than hers. Almost 70% less, so they wouldn't be able to afford to take out a mortgage on that property as SIL doesn't work and her DH's salary isn't big enough to afford MIL's house. That's why they are just moving in, selling their smaller house, using some proceeds to renovate and modernise MIL's house in line with their taste and keeping most of the remainder of the proceeds supposedly to look after her, which she may or may not need.

So SIL is thinking that she gets her dream house, decorated as she wants, free childcare on tap & the downside is living with MIL?

And MIL is thinking that she can kick back, have company on tap & be waited on & the downside is decor not her choice?

I'd love to see this play out!

I wonder if MIl is being played?

She perhaps sees as many advantages as SIL.

I think this sounds really dodgy. If she is actually keeping the house in her own name and they are just staying there could she tell them to leave at any time. Don't know if there is that much you can do about it but I understand why you're annoyed. They want a nice house which is worth more than twice their own. All this looking after your mil is just pie in the sky.

I would stay out of it personally. It's up to your DH to raise if he is at all bothered by it or not. I would not touch this with a barge pole! It will not end happily!

just tell her what happens if sil and bil get divorced

oh dear

house is sold
half the money goes to the ex

It will be a disaster. They'll never manage to live together peaceably. If this goes ahead, make it clear that the enormous financial benefit will mean your bil is taking full responsibility for his mother's health care as his part of the bargain, then breathe a sigh of relief that you are relieved that duty.
My parents turned down the opportunity to live with and care for my great grandmother in return for inheriting a 6 bed roomed house with 12 acres. My mother said the financial ease would never be worth the strain as she knew she would feel beholden to a very dominant, matriarchal woman. They could have done with the money - we lived in a council house in a rural area - but they didn't ever regret it.

Even if SIL does end up doing some caring for MIL, she might still have the next 15yrs mortgage free, in a house she could never have afforded, & with a lump sum from sale of own house without lifting a finger for MIL.

Some might say that that is enough, without being given the house as well when MIL dies!

Why the assumption that mil will need intimate personal care from sil?

Mil could drop dead at any point (sorry! but ykwim) and sil and dh will have a big house and 80% of the value of their current house all to themselves.

And for everyone saying they hate it when families discuss inheritance while parents are still alive, it is quite normal in many families to discuss inheritance, and it makes sense to do it well in ahead of time. Finding it distasteful is all to do with a weird kind of squeamishness about death, which is silly.

YANBU, I get what you're saying. Your DH needs to be closely involved.

mezleym is right, if you give your house to your dc's and continue to live there, the house is not exempt from IHT. The whole thing really does need specialist advice for everyone's benefit.

I agree with Mintyy.

Inheritance should be discussed openly by families long before a relative's death or imminent death. It isn't about 'how much will I get?' but about what your relative wants to do with their worldly possessions so that no-one is bickering with each other when they're also trying to grieve.

Mintyy, quick and relatively painless death is, I suppose, another matter that has never been considered here. My grandfather died like that, literally overnight. He felt a bit unwell one evening after dinner, went to bed and simply never woke up. His wife, my grandmother, died after 2 weeks of feeling unwell.

Actually, thinking back on it, what is interesting is that my grandmother was similarly coerced by her son, my mum's brother, into the whole moving in with them scenario. My gran sold her house and left all cash to them. In the end, my uncle treated her badly, not even allowing her to call her friends whenever she wanted, so she ended up going around the houses of all her other children throughout the week just to avoid my uncle. Thankfully, she had 3 daughters and loads of friends but, sadly, that still meant that she lived her last years going around some of her friends houses like an unwelcome but regular guest. Some of her daughters weren't that happy with her regular visits either, and only my mum welcomed her at any time, and on many occasions she told me she felt that my gran wanted to live with us but having left all her money to her son and DIL, she dared not ask my mum if she could move in with us.

In the end, as I said, she didn't even need any looking after. She lived till almost 90 years of age and died a relatively pain free death after just 2 weeks of feeling unwell. I suppose we could say that during those 2 weeks, my mum's brother did look after her.

Can't speak of tax implications because TBH I don't know what really happened with any of that as I was too young to understand the complexities then.

I always wonder what is in people's minds when they choose to treat children so unequally. Do they not see the damage they cause to family relationships and the splintering of support and affection between siblings that they cause?

its well worth talking about the practicalities of someone dying. i said to DM i dont want just DB as executor because he will just skip all my mothers possessions that cannot be sold on ebay.

the older person can forget everyone else has to get along after they are gone

I think it's up to each one of us individually to decide who we talk to about our deaths.

Your SIL is being cheeky. Why would she need recompense for caring for a relative? How do you know she will need any care?
Your husband is being a pushover.
Maybe they should buy out your brother and his share with any money they make from their house sale?

It does not seem fair that the part of inheritance is going to be 20% of the value of a small house, compared to 50% of future value of a big house.

Or in other words:

Sil gets 100% of mils house plus 80% of her own house, while your dh gets 20% of his sisters small house (and I suppose 100% of his own). Not fair.

Talk to a solicitor.

You will find a lot of people telling you that you are not entitled to anything on mn though, but dont let that get to you. Real life is often different to the ideal philosophical sphere many of us inhabit on forums.

But she isn't entitled to anything!

Philosophically speaking no, she isnt.

But morally speaking, it is not fair to manipulate ones position to get hold on other peoples money, like the SIL is doing, either. So, from that position neither is entitled to anything. Shall one always just roll over and let people manipulate their way into other peoples pockets, because political correctness dictate that there is no real entitlement?

I agree with quintessensially and it was the sil who raised inheritance not op.

Op I agree get advice....its very wise to sort out inheritance while the person is alive to avoid family fall out.

Unless your dh and his sister dont get on anyway?

its not fair he is being short changed.

We don't know much about the relationship between the sister-in-law and mother-in-law, only that they seem closer than the OP is.

Can you explain how, morally, the OP is entitled to any money from this woman?

its not fair he is being short changed.

How can you be short-changed when you are entitled to zero?

So, from that position neither is entitled to anything

exaclty but sil is forcing this issue and has worked thinsg out to her advantage hasnt she,

exaclty but sil is forcing this issue and has worked thinsg out to her advantage hasnt she

Perhaps she has, in which case there's nothing to stop the OP building a relationship beyond collecting the grandson's birthday money. Or perhaps the sister-in-law and mother-in-law just get on?

And for everyone saying they hate it when families discuss inheritance while parents are still alive, it is quite normal in many families to discuss inheritance, and it makes sense to do it well in ahead of time. Finding it distasteful is all to do with a weird kind of squeamishness about death, which is silly

Its more distasteful surely to argue and fall out over money after a death? To snatch and grab and go to court and waste estates in solicitors fees and so on?

Its a very wise move to sort it out now. to the benefit of all parties.

we should all be up front about our wills and our wishes.

I have seen the worst worst case scenario where an inheritance was left to a couple who were so greedy they did not even want to bury the person in a dignified fashion instead wanted to do everything as cheaply as possible to keep as much money as they could.

Sort it out now. Dont leave it to chance..