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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think meanness is a mental illness

155 replies

jenny69xx · 19/07/2014 12:50

I am very worried about my 20 year old DD. She is very careful with money to the point were I think it may be a mental illness. She works full time and takes home around £300 a week. I take a small sum of £20 a week in board. She has been working for about 18 months after finishing A Levels. She is responsible for her own travel, clothes toiletries, social life. She does not spend a penny if she does not have to. Her clothes are often worn and she will not buy anything if it is not on sale. She steals my make up, deodorant etc. She looks a mess as she refuses to “waste” money on haircuts. She would rather walk the 2 hours to work than pay for public transport or run a car. She has no social life and has gradually lost all friends as she refuses to pay for drinks, meals out, taxis etc, even a bottle of wine to take to a party. Christmas gifts from her are very mean and often she does not even buy so much as a card for mother’s day etc.

She has thousands in the bank, which is great, but I am very worried about her. My father is incredibly mean, to the point of embarrassment and I am seeing the same pattern emerging. We have always been very generous with her and she has never seen us struggle for money so I have no idea where this comes from. It makes me very sad to see friends children on holiday, in nightclubs, driving cars. She should be living life!

It started at school with her saving her lunch money rather than eating and it has snowballed from there. After the upbringing I had I feel meanness is absolutely the worst trait to have and I am at my wits end. I have no idea what to do or how to handle her.

OP posts:
sizeup · 19/07/2014 17:47

I think there is definitely some kind of mental/physical illness here, it's beyond the bounds of just laziness/spoilt teen behaviour.

In the evenings/weekends what does she do? Does she sit say downstairs with you, eats meals with you or is she mostly in her bedroom? Does her boyfriend exhibit similar behaviour at all?

AgentZigzag · 19/07/2014 17:49

Great post/article mumzy, is it because money is so 'fluid' do you think? It's there but it's not IYSWIM, trying to get a handle on it is a never ending, labour intensive task.

I have OCD and don't have a problem with spending and I'm definitely not a hoarder, but I do have problems putting things in the bin which runs to putting things down generally.

Part of it can be the 'loss' of the item and not having control over it any more, and I can see how that might transfer over to money. She could have all sorts of rules/judgements about where her money can and can't go and it could be distressing when those are broken.

AKeyFox · 19/07/2014 17:51

How much pocket money did she get growing up ?

How and when did pocket money and other "perks" phase out ?

Was there ever a time when she was getting the best of both worlds; cash from work and still getting other stuff paid by you ?

I just wonder if there was a time just after she started work that she was coining it and is now sulking.

MaryWestmacott · 19/07/2014 18:13

Your DD might have some mental health issues, she might just be mean and lazy, and hasn't grown up.

If it's the former, there's little you can do at that age. If it's the latter, then you could use some of the ideas here.

firstly, she's been working a while now so her rent has to reflect her cost to the house, put it up to £80-100 a week from August, no discussion, you know she can afford it, she can move out if she doesnt like it. (I'd go for £100 as a third of her pay, but down to you).

Also say she is not to take and use your tolietaries, stop her before she says she doesnt, say you know she does and it has to stop. If she takes it again without asking first, you will ask her to leave, she's an adult now, she can buy her own, including towels/tampons, and say that while she's in your house, she will buy them and use them.

You expect her to do her fair share of housework, if she choses to not pay for bus fare (which you know she can afford - tell her that), then if she's tired that's her problem, it shouldn't be your problem and you draw up a list of housework jobs for each night, she picks one per day on the week, 2 per day per weekend day, you won't nag her, but failure to do it 3 days on the run will lead to you asking her to leave. You expect her room kept clean and sheets changed weekly on top of doing housework in the rest of the house.

Be clear, tell her she must realise you are doing her a massive favour letting her live at your home so cheaply, this is the cost to the free rent (point out the £100 will only cover her share of the bills, you aren't charing her for the room, just what she's using, that if she moves out she'll have to pay rent as well as bills).

End it by saying you'll let her think if she wants to stay living with you under the new rules, if not, you'll help her look for a flat of her own - but will not pay for it.

CerealMom · 19/07/2014 18:15

OP, I'm sorry to say the word but... cocklodger (what's the feminine of?)

She is selfish and controlling. You feel guilty and responsible for her because she is your child. Except she isn't, she is an (young) adult. She's making choices to live the way she does and she can make those choices because you enable her.

Don't mistake the sensible behaviour of saving for a goal (eg, house deposit) with miserly behaviour of saving money for the sake of it.

Do you want to be in this position in 5/10... years time?

chanie44 · 19/07/2014 18:32

I watch a show in sky called extreme cheapskates and many of the people on that show sound like your daughter. I didn't get a sense that any of them had mental health problems (although my knowledge is very limited). They had jobs, families and friends and other than being tight, lead normalish lives.

Examples of things did:
Raid telephone boxes for pennies
Collect food from buffet tables to eat during the week.
Gave a free perfume sample as a birthday present.
Bought packet rice to a restaurant so they wouldn't have to buy food.
Dried out used tissues to reuse

One guy was really sad though, he wanted to be a wrestler but wouldn't pay for equipment - sprayed himself with black tea instead of fake tan and second hand boots wrapped in Sellotape. He went for an interview for his dream job and they told him his cheapness cost him the interview.

I guess some people are cheap and will never change.

taxi4ballet · 19/07/2014 19:21

OP - do you and your DH share the household chores/cooking etc or have you always done everything by yourself? Does your DD put her dirty clothes in the washing basket or does she leave them in a heap on the floor for you to pick up, wash, iron and put away for her? When she was little did she ever help you in the kitchen? Does she actually have any idea how to cook? When did all this start? Does she blame you for not paying for her to go to university?

Littleturkish · 19/07/2014 19:27

Great advice from mary

GarlicJulyKit · 19/07/2014 19:47

Thanks for replying to my awkward question, jenny :) For those who wondered - it occurred to me that she's very effectively (in psychological terms) punishing both her parents and herself, while storing up 'worth' for some unknown time in the future. I've no idea whether this would be a recognised dynamic behind pathological miserliness, by the way.

But pathologically miserly she is: a Scrooge of the 21st century. Maybe it's genetic, as you suspect. Whatever the cause, you have little choice but to set - and keep - extremely firm, self-protective boundaries. A bit like living with any other type of addict, the advice is to stop enabling them, don't make their choices for them, and don't make sacrifices. I hope she doesn't cause you too much misery over it, though I'm darn sure she won't be happy.

Nanny0gg · 19/07/2014 19:55

Don't know if I've missed it, but is anyone else surprised that she's got a boyfriend?

Apart from a lot of free meals at your house, what's in it for him? They can't go out very much, her room is disgusting and apparently they don't sleep together anyway.

Is he very fond of her?

oldgrandmama · 19/07/2014 20:00

This thread has reminded me of an Arnold Bennett novel: Riceyman Steps. Sorry, OP, but your daughter has ALL the same traits as the guy (and his wife) in the book. Didn't end well for either of them.

GarlicJulyKit · 19/07/2014 20:01

Caveat: I'm just rummaging around the subject out of interest. Does this describe her at all? psychcentral.com/disorders/obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder-symptoms/ OCPD is different from OCD, though there's a lot of crossover in the need for rigid patterns of behaviour & thinking. Also, OCD is not always linked with frantic cleaning & tidying: some sufferers hoard & allow dirt to accumulate, due to the same fears of a changing world but with a different outcome.

expatinscotland · 19/07/2014 23:34

Only on MN is plain old shit behaviour so often excused as mental illness.

AgentZigzag · 19/07/2014 23:48

Because MH problems can cause bizarre and shit behaviour expat?

Not all the time, but the alternative is that her DD's just an all round shit and there's no hope of her ever changing, posters just piling in to tell the OP and making her feel worse.

I can genuinely see where posters are coming from, but like a lot of MH problems, they can look as though the person is putting it on to people who aren't experiencing the reality of it.

Whatever it is the DD doesn't seem happy, and there's no harm in at least trying to help the OP think round the problem.

jenny69xx · 19/07/2014 23:50

@Nanny0gg Despite everything she is very attractive. Very good figure. Never had an issue getting a bf. Not sure I believe the " virgin" claim if i am honest. Seems a bit far fetched as she has been on contraceptives since she was 16 with my blessing. He has quite a difficult homelife. A disabled sister, mother with MH issues, so probably finds our home quite calm. We are also very nice to him. Pay for trips out, generous birthday gifts etc

@Garlic Yes, I feel like she is punishing me, but not sure why. Gave my life to her. SAHM till she was 7 and only worked part time after that. Have given her everything. Issues started when she was about 13. Typical puberty age. Model child up until then. Seems to almost hate the fact she comes from a two parent, happily married family.

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 19/07/2014 23:55

It took me until I was well into my 20s to realise I had a problem and to want to get it sorted so all's not lost OP. It got much worse when I hit 14 as well.

Does she think of herself as having a problem with money? Have you suggested she goes to ask someone about it? (sorry if I've missed you saying)

taxi4ballet · 20/07/2014 00:00

You say you gave your life to her and have given her everything. Does she maybe feel that she will never be able to live up to your expectations?

When did you start giving her more independence/responsibility as a young teenager, and how did she respond?

CallerIDBingo · 20/07/2014 01:39

You sound really lovely OP and I hope what's been said here isn't hurting you too much.

But your DD sounds really quite unwell to me.

Would she agree to talk to someone? It sounds like the money issue is the tip of the iceberg.

FriendlyAmoeba · 20/07/2014 01:45

Gave my life to her. SAHM till she was 7 and only worked part time after that. Have given her everything.

I mean this as gently as possible. But that's not something she owes you for, or need to be thankful for. You chose to have a child, and all the responsibilities that come with it. It sucks to hear, but being a parent is a thankless job.

But she does need to treat you with respect, which she's not doing. You do need to set boundaries, and she needs to respect them.

Preciousbane · 20/07/2014 07:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DogCalledRudis · 20/07/2014 08:11

Being tight fisted is not an illness

bellarations · 20/07/2014 08:44

Dog I don't think it's an illness per se however I think garlic has it right, saving for a "future need" or just the need to control something.
My arsehole father (for different reasons he was an arsehoe) was like you describe, as children it was upsetting to see him store food and drink that we couldn't eat, he was saving it.

Beautifulmonster · 20/07/2014 09:05

You say you 'gave your life to her' and 'gave her everything.' You say you still pay for meals, clothes, trips out and even give generous gifts to her bf (why?)

A lot of these theories are interesting and it does sound extreme. But you have given her so much, is it as simple as she hasn't had to do anything for herself or pay for anything? Being a parent is not about 'giving everything' and she has thrown it back in your face.

DogCalledRudis · 20/07/2014 10:27

I know some people like this. Not an illness, more like a lifestyle choice.

SaucyJack · 20/07/2014 10:39

Some good advice here.

How long until her 21st birthday? It's a bit of a milestone one in terms of reaching adulthood, and I'm wondering if you could use it as a focal point for when you have the talk with her about increasing her rent/chores. As in, in four months (or whatever it is) you will be an adult and by that point you will need to be paying a third of bills and doing a third of housework.

Regardless of whether she has MH issues or is just a lazy user, you are not currently doing her any favours in the long run.

I agree with her about not needing to clean the floors everyday tho