To think meanness is a mental illness

[jenny69xx]

I am very worried about my 20 year old DD. She is very careful with money to the point were I think it may be a mental illness. She works full time and takes home around £300 a week. I take a small sum of £20 a week in board. She has been working for about 18 months after finishing A Levels. She is responsible for her own travel, clothes toiletries, social life. She does not spend a penny if she does not have to. Her clothes are often worn and she will not buy anything if it is not on sale. She steals my make up, deodorant etc. She looks a mess as she refuses to “waste” money on haircuts. She would rather walk the 2 hours to work than pay for public transport or run a car. She has no social life and has gradually lost all friends as she refuses to pay for drinks, meals out, taxis etc, even a bottle of wine to take to a party. Christmas gifts from her are very mean and often she does not even buy so much as a card for mother’s day etc.

She has thousands in the bank, which is great, but I am very worried about her. My father is incredibly mean, to the point of embarrassment and I am seeing the same pattern emerging. We have always been very generous with her and she has never seen us struggle for money so I have no idea where this comes from. It makes me very sad to see friends children on holiday, in nightclubs, driving cars. She should be living life!

It started at school with her saving her lunch money rather than eating and it has snowballed from there. After the upbringing I had I feel meanness is absolutely the worst trait to have and I am at my wits end. I have no idea what to do or how to handle her.

I do think walking for 4 hours a day, in order to save £5 she can well afford, does actually point to some sort of mental illness.

Thing is about booting her out to start her own life is that if she has got a genuine problem then it's a risk that she's only going to go downhill.

Could she actually want to move out but daren't and treating you like shit is one way of getting you to do the dirty work for her? If she 'fails' on the outside world she could then see it as your fault for forcing her hand.

Have you ever given her the 'buck up or you're out' speech before OP? Presumably that wouldn't go down very well and you don't seem to want to challenge her on anything, could you be encouraging her to rely on you because you're worried about how she'll cope on her own? You can feel that at the same time as wanting her to move on, but you do seem to let her play on your peace at all cost way of thinking.

frugal is fine, but stashing your own money away while stealing things you need from other people is unacceptable.

I think that for a start, you need to tell her that stealing will not be tolerated and that she has to pay her own way in life like the rest of us. Saving money is great, but you do it with the money you have left after attending to your own needs. You don't save all your money and mooch off others.

You'll be very rich, yes, but your money won't cuddle you or give a shit about you. People do that. And if you steal from them or are mean with them, you can be rich all on your own, and much joy may it bring you.

Blimey sounds like you have a 3 year old living with you not a 20 year old. You really aren't helping her by babying her and not making her take financial responsibility for herself.

She is very much a freeloader yes. Will happily go to events if someone else pays, family, boyfriend. Always drinks a lot if we are paying etc. Happy to have expensive items of clothes if I pay.

Well, there's part of the problem. If she holds out long enough you pick up the slack so to speak. This could be a symptom of a mental illness, as this is kind of an extreme refusal to spend money, but you are enabling. It could be anxiety about letting go of money (because, what if she needs it?). She's not going to get help until she sees it as a problem for her, so you need to stop letting her steal your stuff and getting her nice things.

@AgentZigzag I would love nothing more for her to move out. I want her to be independent, love life. The only thing I am afraid of is her never speaking to me again if i force her hand. My husband points out she is not very nice to me anyway so why do I care?

@HecatePropylaea Yes my parents are very wealthy but I hardly see them as they really love money over people. They are too tight to even make us a coffee when we visit! What is the point of owning a massive house, but have no one to care about you? I'd rather share my last loaf of bread with friends and family around my table

I am frugal myself, wasting money is silly, but never tight. There is a difference.

Ok. Thank you for all the advice

What is reasonable in terms of board? £100 a week has been suggested

What is reasonable to ask of her in terms of chores? I work 20 hours a week and do all housework, cooking and laundry. Husband works full time. She is out of the house 6am - 7.30pm, but that is mainly through choice as she walks to work. Has all weekends free.

Do I stop feeding the boyfriend 3/4 nights a week? He doesn't stay over (she has never asked) and she never eats at his parents house.

Anything else I could be doing?

Bloody hell you feed her boyfriend too?

It sounds to me a bit like anorexia but with money rather than food. So I guess it could be considered akin to a mental illness in that respect. But if she won't talk about it, and doesn't see a problem not sure what you can do.

you're also feeding the boyfriend 3-4 nights a week ! the £20 is not even covering their food you know, never mind bills and all the chores you do.

I think if you are doing all her laundry and food and bills then £100 a week is perfectly reasonable. How long do you see her remaining at home though? Ever discussed a time limit?

I think £80-£100 rent per week
She is responsible for doing all her own laundry and cleaning her own room. If her boyfriend is over she cooks for everyone and clears away (he can help!)

I certainly think an increase in her board is required. As someone suggested if she gives you more money then you can provide toiletries etc as part of this. £100 per week is probably about right for board, food, laundry and ad hoc toiletries. Does she also take a packed lunch?

Chores need to be based around what time she has free to do these. I assume she already cleans her own room and does her own ironing? (these things are non negotiable in my house. Even my 16yo does these herself) If she doesn't then she should.

Then add on other responsibilities. Washing up, emptying dishwasher, putting bins out. Anything you can easily delegate really.

It is also a bit much to feed the boyfriend so often if this is not reciprocated. Could you ask them to buy ingredients and make one meal per week maybe at the weekend?

@phantomnamechanger Boyfriend is lovely, I don't mind feeding him, especially as most nights my husband is at work and just as easy to cook for 3 as it is for 2. Think he is a saint to put up with her! We are not exactly flush with cash as I cannot work full time due to health issues, so this does annoy my husband. An extra £80 a week would make a lot of difference to us.

Not sure how to bring up the leaving home thing? Is it the done thing these days? Thought most children stayed at home till mid 20s at least. Would be happy for her to stay home if she had a life of her own to be honest and was a bit more cheery.

She walks a lot too maggie, isn't that something that can go with anorexia?

I would introduce the changes gradually OP, it'd be unfair IMO to be generally OK with things one day and turn it all upside down the next. Give her a couple of regular chores you think there's at least a chance of her carrying out, but don't give her a choice, you have to insist, and then just build it up from there.

I'm worrying on your behalf at the prospect of telling her the rent's gone up £80 a week! Maybe you could work it alongside the chores where there's a financial incentive for her doing them? It's basic but effective.

What would she say if you were to suggest she invest in a bike so that she could cycle to work more quickly? She could buy a bike for a fraction of her savings and it would make a big difference to her daily life. Would she argue it wasn't worth it?

At first I thought she had a mental health problem, because her behaviour was so extreme but when you said she was essentially a freeloader who let you do everything for her and pay for everything, I changed my mind.

As far as her boyfriend's concerned, normally I would say if he's a student, help him out with a meal, but given the way your daughter is, I'd now insist she pays for those meals.

I'd also say that she should go to the supermarket with you every week and pay 1/3 of the bill, plus whatever is needed for her boyfriend's dinners.

@littlewhitebag No, she does not iron. Her room is a pit and is cleaned once a month when I get too annoyed with it. It is disgusting. Never makes her bed. I have to change it for her as she would rather sleep with no sheets than put clean ones on.

jenny This doesn't really sound good. does she keep herself clean? Shower regularly etc?

@ImperialBlether She has a bike. Doesnt use it. She is very slim. Size 6/8, but i am sure all the walking, no drunken nights out helps. Part of me thinks she does all the walking as almost a self inflicted punishment. She always says how tired she is. Its also an excuse. Cant wash up/ hoover when i get i from work as I am so tired.

I'd work out how much it costs for her to live in your house, including the BF's meals.

Then sit her down and talk through you needing more money from her.

Then she needs to be actively involved with the running if the household, so pitches in with housework, or shopping.

Are you sure there isn't a level of social anxiety that's means she would rather walk than get on a bus?

My eldest DD has bouts of anxiety and will walk at times, it's only a 40 minute walk, though.

If not then, you could compromise with either she fits in housework, or you could drop the new amount of keep, to allow for a weekly bus pass.

Don't be to harsh on her, to quickly, you have enabled this and it wouldn't be fair.

@littlewhitebag She showers everyday. I do have to buy her pads though or she wont use them, uses toilet roll.

X post.

She doesn't sound well.

You need to help her put together a plan to make changes.

Sleeping with no sheets on sounds more of a MH issue. She doesn't take care of herself, does she? No wonder she's tired. Can she not see that everyone else in the whole country pays for transport? What do they think of her at work, particularly if she's walking for two hours in the rain?

If you paid for a bus pass for her (not suggesting you do) would she use it? If you offered her the money for the bus pass, would she save it instead?

Does she ever say what she's saving up for?

If the boyfriend is the one outside family social contact and not flush himself I'd hang fire on charging for his food directly. From all her other behaviours I'd guess she'd just tell him he couldn't eat at yours or come at meal times and the limit of contact might lead towards an end of the relationship. Indirectly within rent an allowance for food which takes into account his food fine.

I assume you have pointed out that if she spent some money on the bus fare instead of spending 4 hours walking she would be less tired and able to function as part of the family in the evening.

I am a bit stern and would tell mine that tired or not, the chores are still there and they will be done. My DD1 works long unsociable hours as waitress and she still has to get things done.

Has she ever shoplifted? I had a friend who liked nice things but was never prepared to pay for them - it wasn't a huge shock when she was caught shoplifting. Has she ever turned up with things that belong to other people?