To think London is an ok place to bring up dcs?

[longestlurkerever]

I live in London. I am lucky enough to own a house with a small garden near a big park in zone 2 and have enough flex in the budget to cover tube tickets, regular cheap days out and the occasional more expensive one as a treat. Lots of my friends and colleagues are looking to leave London, saying they wouldn't want to bring up children in London, in a tone that makes it sound like it would be borderline neglectful to stay. I guess if we were going to move (either further out to somewhere more rural but with a commute in for work or to properly delicate) then now while dd is still small would be the best time to do so (she is turning 3) but I am not sure I want to.

There is so much to do with young dcs here, often free or cheap. This week we have been to the South Bank to play in the fountains, on the temporary slides and at the fake beach, to a free toddler cycling club and associated awards ceremony with free drinks and goodie bags, to three separate parks with big paddling pools, sand pits and zip wires, to an nct event with free face painting and taster classes of dancing and theatre, to the woods for play camping with tents and hammocks (that was with nursery) and we are just about to go to an abandoned railway line for Blackberry picking followed by the city farm. Over the last few weeks we have been to four museums and two puppet shows not to mention lots of birthday parties in parks and on the heath. Neighbours and I are building a communal play area on the railway land behind our houses nd have applied for the road to be closed off once a month for a 'play street'.

Admittedly all of these activities are a bit 'urban'. The toddler cycling is on an unlovely estate with boarded up flats and the blackberry picking is along a nature reserve interspersed with graffitied railway arches. I sometimes worry about all the pollution in London but overall I think dd is having fun, making friends and experiencing lots of different things that she maybe wouldn't do in a village. Is it ok that she isn't drinking in beautiful scenery and bounding through fields? I love the seaside and we are off to Wales on holiday next week. Sometimes I dream of living by the sea but tbh feel a bit lost in the countryside, esp in bad weather, and put dd in a field without other children and a playground and she looks a bit bemused.

So aibu to bring dd up in London? Am I being hopelessly naive to think I can steer her away from gangs and crime as she gets older, or to think that the countryside has its problems too? She will be going to state schools - they are fairly decent where we live. I grew up in a town but a much smaller one.

I don't recognise the problem with crowds thing.

I currently live in zone 3 and it's quiet and peaceful, but we're a 5 minute bus ride from the buzz but even then it's not unbearable. Huge parks nearby where it's peaceful

Grew up in zone 6 and again it was peaceful.

Frequently go out in zone one and yes there can be lots of people but you only have to go one road away parallel and again it's peaceful and not crowded. I guess if you only walk up and down Oxford street you'd get pissed off.

We moved for a number of reasons.
I don't regret it and I love having a house that can fit all our stuff, rather than a tiny flat with neighbours moaning abut the noise (can you stop walking around before 8.00am was my favourite comment)and I love living in a village. I loved London too and if we could have had afforded a house near a decent school I'd have stayed.
Horses for courses isn't it? Neither is " better" and it's what works for you. London is easy to get to and actually it's quicker to get to museums from here than where we were, plus we experience more - we go to lots if different towns and places now rather than just into London IYSWIM.
As the countryside can be pretty mind blowing as well. The stars at night are breathtaking.

I agree namechangearoonie - I'm certainly envious! Just had a quick look and the cheapest 3 bed home close to where we are in £500k. No chance can we afford that and it's pretty rank looking anyway. I'll be really gutted if rents get too high. Or, tbh, get too high where we are, which we love. We've got very strong local connections etc.

I agree with Wookie

Even people who can afford the sort of life the OP has ( like her friends) can get a bit worried about London ( unduly IMo) or they want to go for a childhood for their DCs that they are more familiar with.

I think the prime time that people do it is just before school age or early on, when people want a garden, or a bigger garden, or they are worried about school. I might have done it then (bigger garden ), but Dh was able to cycle to work

London does come into its own during the teens though.

YANBU.

Even with very little money, London is a good place to bring up children.

People that plan to move out, for whatever reason, always slag off London, it helps them allay their doubts and justify what they are doing.

Nothing worse than an ex Londoner moaning about London!

If you have an OK house - and access to good local schools no problems...in your own little bubble.
I think London (at least when I left 15yrs ago now) was a good illustration of the social divide - the gap between rich and poor. Certain areas are so expensive you are not going to mix with 'undesirables' - everyone is of a similar background
I lived in quite a rough area of London for years - I helped out a pretty mixed background primary school - and in that case my biggest concern would be who your DC mix with ... but then getting to know people from different backgrounds etc I think is good to form a fully rounded individual.
I found a lot of London bred people from the nice areas were all a bit fake and a bit precious...had a blinkered narrow minded world view...often champagne socialists.
I actually chose to move to the 'rough' area to get away from that - be with different, unattractive, 'real' people.

And in Summer I think London is absolutely miserable - sweltering crowded tubes, stuck in traffic...the pollution in the air...remember at the weekend trying to go to Brighton or Hastings and being stuck in massive traffic jams for hours as everyone was trying to do the same.

I don't think a fake beach compares with a real beach ...and Clapham common compares with real countryside ...
And blackberry picking ...at this time of year????? Surely way too early (or if it isn't I'd be worried about why!)

I'm sure your life in London with a house in Zone 2 next to a park etc etc etc is very nice. I'm quite envious; I love London!

But you can't be so naive as to imagine that others are so lucky.

People I know have moved out of London because all they could afford was a studio in Zone 5 with used needles in the hallway.

How could raising children in that environment be an option? London's great if your wealthy or considered 'poor' so you are given council accommodation. Other than that you are fucked.

I love living in London and I have a 2.5yo

We have just been to a paddling pool and playground in the heath. Live in catchment of a good school and can go anywhere without a car.

A few weeks ago met the Gruffalo in Foyles and went to see the butterflies at the natural history museum...

OK I am in a top floor flat with no garden. But I have a balcony...

Wouldn't want to move out to have to take a car everywhere and then be a taxi driver when dd becomes a teen...

I live in a mixed area of East London (I was raised, not born though, in a crappy area of South London) - Zone 3, small council house which if bought would be worth about £200k, nearest sec school has high rate of FSM and so on. It's safe and we live near a nice area (houses mainly £350-500k there, here it's definitely cheaper and smaller) with a good few parks. It is amazing for children and teens. So much to do, and so much of it is cheap! Living in London is expensive bills wise, but transport is cheaper than most of the country and all the free museums and exhibitions and attractions mean that the summer holidays aren't ever boring. We don't have a car and we don't need one, the transport links are amazing, I really like it here. I know I'm luckier than most- my family who have recently come over (granted asylum) live in a not nice area with two DC although significantly better than before, London isn't all round good to live in.

We moved out 2 years ago. Practically doubled our living space and garden for the same money.

To me we have the best of both worlds now. More space, cleaner air (ish), countryside right on our door steps and London 30 mins on train when we want to.

DD gets to do all of the kind of things you mentioned in your OP right here. We're 10 mins away from a very family orientated city with big parks, lido, outdoor paddling pools, sandpit, free music events etc and have the smaller more community/villagey events like food festivals, live music in the local park every weekend in summer, town festival, local fetes etc

We don't miss out on anything. It's not ALL going on in London y'know!

I am so [envy I don't know where to start!

My parents moved us out of London when I was coming up 3 - I'm 38 now and have never entirely forgiven them tbh.

We live in West Sussex - smack in between countryside and sea. We make very little use of either and since taking her for the first time aged 5 (she's now nearly 10) DD had been been obsessed with London and often asks when are we next going.

If I had the money I would move back there in a heartbeat.

If you and your DH like it and your DD is happy why move?

OP, by the sound of things, (assuming you're in North London), we used to pick our blackberries along the same disused railway line - is there a big, wooden sculpture of a Green Man still looking out from an arch partway along?

We left that part of London for work reasons when our son was one -now living in a small village - but would consider returning for all the reasons you mention. I would have some worries, but I think big cities can be fabulous places for children.

All cities have good and bad. Frankly depends on where you live,and disposable income
Scottish folk are generally wary of that london,and it's crime,cost,grime

My DH and I grew up in zone 2 and 3 respectively in relatively undesirable areas of London. We currently own our own property in zone 5 and are really as far out as we would want to be. I feel like we're missing out of all the advantages mentioned, and don't really have the advantages of being rural either. Our next move will definitely be further one way or the other (but probably back in). We have a 7yo and a 1yo.

Yanbu I wish I could bring my dc up in London so many opportunities growing up and jobs when they are older.

It's a great place, but it's just not affordable. If you live in London, then unless you are very well off (or on state benefits?) you can't afford luxuries like going on holiday etc

I live in Zone 1 so you won't get any arguments from me. No I'm not rich btw. If only.

It's your choice to stay where you are and you have somewhere that suits you. My place suits me.

London is becoming more and more expensive to buy and rent in, so I understand why people move away as their circumstances change. I wish more of them would say so, rather than pissing on my chips. I get that quite a lot but I'm far too well brung up to rise to the bait

Some posters have mentioned loneliness and I completely agree with them. I love the fact that where I live is busy, and that I use public transport, because I talk to acquaintances and strangers all the time. It's a myth that Londoners are unfriendly. I do know my neighbours.

I love living where I do but I'm sure with a bit of adjustment, I'd get on in any British city or town with proper infrastructure - markets, shops, public transport. Sadly, in too many towns you don't get that - or that's my impression.

That's not the fault of the people who live there. It's the fault of the town planners in local and central government.

Commuter towns where you have to drive to the shops and the nearest station make me nervous. And I'm not cut out for rural living. Well, I could do both with Amazon and supermarket deliveries and a well-stocked freezer and wine rack, but I'd be lonely as hell with creeping cirrhosis.

I loathe Boris Johnson for courting the shady billions of money-launderers and property speculators. He is ruining London and tellingly, he's overwhelmingly popular with voters in the outskirts but not those in the inner boroughs. Dave and Gideon should take their share of the blame too.

I wouldn't live anywhere else. My kids (13,12 and 10) have a great life.

In terms of parks (tons of them), museums, cinema, eating out, having their friends on the doorstep (local schools), great public transport, sights and sounds it's a wonderful place to grow up.

I do appreciate we are privileged to have a house with good sized garden in a great area though.

Oh btw, I wouldn't bother going blackberrying this afternoon.

If anything is big, black and juicy rather than tiny, tough and whitish-green I'd be worried about a secret radiation source

Late August if a good summer; September and early October definitely.

I used to live in what's now Zone 6. My dad was tall enough to reach over to get the better berries that the dogs hadn't pissed on.

He made me some makeshift body armour - hat tied down with a scarf under my chin, swimming goggles, long sleeved and trousered thick clothing and outsized gardening gloves and send me into the thicket with a bucket to get the really good ones.

I had to take the gloves off to be able to do it and had the itchy scratches to prove it.

We'd then soak them to get the maggots out and eat endless apple and blackberry crumbles. The apples were scrounged from trees abandoned on a WWII prefab site.

Talcum It does indeed. And we got enough berries for a crumble. Agree it seems early but they are always there in the run up to Dd' s birthday - it's elevated there so catches the sun I guess.

I know I am privileged and my experience of London wouldn't be everyone's - or everyone's cup of tea - I think I acknowledged that in my OP. I suppose I just object to people implying my dd is missing out on a good childhood. Of course a fake beach isn't as good as a real one and I do agree about the stars but no childhood can have everything I suppose.

I don't think I live in a bubble though there are areas near me like that. Mine is a little more mixed and I think the better for it.

Thanks for all the perspectives. It's good to hear from people with older dcs who haven't regretted bringing them up in London.

And yes, being a northerner originally I do realise there are other cities! The people I am thinking of generally contrast London with an idyllic rural childhood. I think if we ever did move it would be properly away to somewhere with its own life and culture rather than commuter belt but yes, horses for courses.

Limited I love your description of blackberrying with your Pa

Aaaaaaand rural crime and drugs etc pretty bad, it ain't all applecheeked farrrrrrmerrrrrs and cricket teas with the vicar who doubles as wicketkeeper

Longest lurker I mentioned this thread to my dd1 who's 15 and she said that she's enjoyed the ease of getting to see people and the mix of cultures , I grew up in the commuter belt so I live in the city but sometimes fancy somewhere really rural , but like so many things it's individual circumstances

We live in London with our DDs and we all love it. Wouldn't live anywhere else. Anywhere else feels claustrophobic and dull now for some reason. Different tastes.

One fab thing about where I live is that all the kids in our street, about a dozen of them between 3 and 10, play out in the street together unsupervised.