To think London is an ok place to bring up dcs?

[longestlurkerever]

I live in London. I am lucky enough to own a house with a small garden near a big park in zone 2 and have enough flex in the budget to cover tube tickets, regular cheap days out and the occasional more expensive one as a treat. Lots of my friends and colleagues are looking to leave London, saying they wouldn't want to bring up children in London, in a tone that makes it sound like it would be borderline neglectful to stay. I guess if we were going to move (either further out to somewhere more rural but with a commute in for work or to properly delicate) then now while dd is still small would be the best time to do so (she is turning 3) but I am not sure I want to.

There is so much to do with young dcs here, often free or cheap. This week we have been to the South Bank to play in the fountains, on the temporary slides and at the fake beach, to a free toddler cycling club and associated awards ceremony with free drinks and goodie bags, to three separate parks with big paddling pools, sand pits and zip wires, to an nct event with free face painting and taster classes of dancing and theatre, to the woods for play camping with tents and hammocks (that was with nursery) and we are just about to go to an abandoned railway line for Blackberry picking followed by the city farm. Over the last few weeks we have been to four museums and two puppet shows not to mention lots of birthday parties in parks and on the heath. Neighbours and I are building a communal play area on the railway land behind our houses nd have applied for the road to be closed off once a month for a 'play street'.

Admittedly all of these activities are a bit 'urban'. The toddler cycling is on an unlovely estate with boarded up flats and the blackberry picking is along a nature reserve interspersed with graffitied railway arches. I sometimes worry about all the pollution in London but overall I think dd is having fun, making friends and experiencing lots of different things that she maybe wouldn't do in a village. Is it ok that she isn't drinking in beautiful scenery and bounding through fields? I love the seaside and we are off to Wales on holiday next week. Sometimes I dream of living by the sea but tbh feel a bit lost in the countryside, esp in bad weather, and put dd in a field without other children and a playground and she looks a bit bemused.

So aibu to bring dd up in London? Am I being hopelessly naive to think I can steer her away from gangs and crime as she gets older, or to think that the countryside has its problems too? She will be going to state schools - they are fairly decent where we live. I grew up in a town but a much smaller one.

[VioletHare]

What I don't get about the 'benefits' of London...is, what is really so different about it?

Fab activities, decent museums, nice restaurants. Great. All of which are also available in plenty of other places but without the huge compromises (IMO) that London brings.

[NewtRipley]

Violet

You are right, those things exist elsewhere. Maybe not in such great number, that is all. I don't see much of a compromise though, and nor does the OP. it is just what's a priority for you. The only other place i would live would have to be by the sea, because that's one thing I have foregone.

[curiousuze]

Right the blackberries are all ripe round where I am (NE London) - I was going to pick some tomorrow. Should I not??

[limitedperiodonly]

That's a bit patronising. We country bumpkins understand zoning all right. It's London's way of describing itself by its defining factor - the cost and difficulty of getting around.


purits I don't believe I'm a bit patronising. What would you say if I said you were a bit chippy?

[nooka]

Biggest issue for us living in London was the time it took to get out, and the nastiness of dh's commute. I would have happily stayed (am London born and bred so zoned out much of the 'bad' stuff) but dh was desperate to escape.

Now we live in a small town in Western Canada, and although I still love London I'd not go back there to live again. But we did think about moving to the middle of another big city now our children are teenagers because of the independence that would give them.

[chrome100]

Well I grew up in the middle of the Lake District and took shit loads of drugs because there was nothing better to do in the eyes of a teenager.

[Joysmum]

We love going to London but I'd not want to live there.

We notice how our behaviour changes in London to match the people there. It's much nicer outside of London in that respect.

Of course their are lots of fab things in London, we wouldn't go regularly if there wasn't. I'd love a pied de terre there. Nothing on earth would induce me to move there, let alone bring up a family there.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

violet of course they exist somewhere else. But mostly the combination of it all is only find in a large city. I assume the OPs friends aren't thinking of moving to Birmingham or Manchester. But more a little village in the Home Counties. That's what I'm basing my comparison on.

[laza222]

writtenguarantee that's interesting. I have to admit, we haven't looked at Islington. We ruled it out as it always seems too pricey but from what you are saying there are some reasonable parts so I'll take a look. The only problem is how much of the north circular my DH would have to do each day. At the moment we are 10 mins from the M1 and on the tube line I need for work so it really is perfect. Like with everything though, it's weighing up what's important and if we want to stay in London then the longer commute into our offices may be what we have to do.

I actually very much like the countryside too but after having a pretty lonely experience moving away from all that we knew before, I'm a little scared of having that experience again. Things change though - if we do move north again it will hopefully be with children which I hope would open up the opportunity to meet people, be more a part of a community and make friends. Last time we were early 20s and struggled to make friends. One thing I would like about living outside London is the possibility of having my own car again! I do miss that.

[laza222]

As for the blackberry situation, is there any reason not to pick them if they are ripe? I love blackberry picking and would love to go tomorrow but it seems a month and a half early!

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

People do prefer different things. DHs parents are from Birmingham, and his mum hates it. She picked to live in the middle of no where. (New Plymouth in NZ). You would not pay me enough to live there again. It is so isolating. I'm ok where I am now because it is just outside a largish town (Southampton if you are curious). But I do miss a bit of the hustle and bustle of Hong Kong. Every time I go to London I love it. There are all those museums, all the regular talks at the royal society, all the ethnic food shops.

[LadyWithLapdog]

We moved from zone 3 to 5 and would also hope for shoebox in theatre land when DCs leave home. I work in a small town and the travel into London is probably shorter than from other London places but the feel of the town and peoples attitudes is very provincial. I guess many haven't been to London in decades.

[writtenguarantee]

Where the OP lives in zone 2is like her own town, or dare I say, village. Not noticed smog here. Shops, cafes, schools, parks, Victorian and postwar houses. It is a community, with people who talk to each other in shops, children who play together.

indeed. It sounds VioletHare pictures all of London to be like Covent Garden, but of course only that area is like that. Zone 2 is "pretty quiet" (in quotes, because I notice the noise level drop when I leave London!).

[writtenguarantee]

that's interesting. I have to admit, we haven't looked at Islington.

south of Highbury & Islington is very expensive, but prices drop north of it. I don't know your budget, but as I said there are a number of places for under what you mention.

as others have mentioned, depends on what you like. I can see people hating London, but I love it. yeah, it's not perfect, and cost is a factor (but I think that is mainly housing), but no place is perfect. I happen to be an immigrant, so I find London great for not caring about that.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

I would move to London if I could afford the housing too. All too late now for me!

[pinkerson]

OP, your life sounds fab! No reason to move if you have a big enough home, a park and a garden. Plus all the clubs, museums and other opportunities sound great. You gave no reason to move that I can see.

[TheBeanpole]

We're staying. We live in a very unfashionable bit of zone 4, having moved to a house from a flat in an even less fashionable bit of zone 2. We both have a short commute, and really like our mixed area - there are kids playing out this evening. We both grew up in rural places- me in the sort of

[TheBeanpole]

Damn phone.

...place that people dream of relocating to. I did craploads of teenage drinking and drugs, with the added frisson of driving in the mix. Going to the cinema was a logistical challenge of mega proportions and cultural life very limited. We love it here and are not rich. I don't think we are in a bubble- one of the things we like about London is most areas are very mixed. We don't need a car, loads of stuff is free, and DD will be able to do whatever she's interested in. Schools are perfectly good- london actually has high performance, comparatively. We both spent teenage years feeling life was happening elsewhere.

Having said all that DD will probably be into surfing or something and hate us.

[OnlyLovers]

'its defining factor - the cost and difficulty of getting around.'

That's not the defining factor of each zone. I'm not sure any of London's zones HAS a 'defining factor'; it's just a way of dividing up the map.

It pisses me off that people come to London, insist on making a beeline for Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square and Oxford Street, at Christmas or in the summer, at weekends, and then complain about how busy it is and how rude people are and how no one wants to interact.

Of course it's busy then and there. Mainly it's busy with other people who've come from outside London and insisted on making a beeline for Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square and Oxford Street, etc etc.

When you live in London, IME, and shop/eat/spend time in places outside of the tourist traps, life is a lot quieter; and you become a regular in shops and cafes etc very very fast, I've found.

And I've lived in plenty of small places and I've got to say, I've never experienced everyone strolling down the street tipping their hat and calling out a friendly greeting to everyone they pass. I genuinely don't get this thing about Londoners not looking at you or interacting with you. It's always and only trotted out by people who don't live here.

[Pipbin]

I grew up in a very small village and I longed to live in a city.
I remember seeing a film about city children going to a city farm and them talking about how deprived their lives were. I couldn't see it myself. They had friends that they could walk to, cinemas and shops that they could get to under their own steam.

Village living is lovely for the parents but rubbish for the children.

[longestlurkerever]

Yes I agree the argument that Londoners are rude and unfriendly is unfair. The worst culprits for pushing on the tube are tourists ime and who wants pointless chit chat with strangers every day on the way to work really? If we are going to generalise the biggest thing I find about Londoners is they are tolerant and accepting and those are behaviours I value. The idea of a village where you're still an outsider because you have only lived there for two generations horrifies me if I am honest.

On the what's different question, there are other great cities obviously but I am still struck by the variety. After 15 years I am still discovering new places- 2 of the museums I went to last month were new to me and I was introduced to a new park this morning with a magical pond with Lily pads and dragonflies, just walking distance from my house. Plus so much is free. Of all the things I mentioned in my OP only one of the puppet shows cost anything beyond the travelcard which I have anyway for work. It does take a while to get used to. I didn't like it when I first lived here but had six months away, changed jobs to one where I could make the most of what's on offer and have loved it ever since.

Agree it's sticky in summer though- am melting today!

[OnlyLovers]

lurker, I agree 100%.

[NewtRipley]

longest

Have you been to the Horniman Museum? It's one that many haven't heard of but it's great for children. A curate's egg of a Natural History bit, an anthropology bit, a really great little Aquarium with cases at eyes level for littlies, lovely gardens, decent cafe, a park across the road with playground.

[longestlurkerever]

Newt I have been to the aquarium bit but owe it another visit to do the rest. Also the Geffrye

[longestlurkerever]

D